Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A few days ago i posted a message about my baby red eyed tree frogs. They had been very health and fat, but within the last week they were very skinny. I posted a message asking for help and i got one reply telling me not to worry about it.

While everyone was [bleep]ing and moaning about somebody SUCCESSFULLY keeping different species together, one of my RETF's died.

Maybe we should pay attention to posts that ask for help. Just a thought.

I admittedly don't hardly ever take the time to visit this forum anymore but I did go back and look at your original post when I saw this one. I am sorry that your frog died for starters, we never want to see that happen and know how upsetting it can be when it does. My sincere condolences.
Having said that, in your original post, you did not give anywhere near enough information for someone to give you any proper advice - granted some of us would have asked you for it, but when a frog has just eaten it does look quite a bit more plump than after it has pooped which it will then look a bit thinner. If your frog died in a matter of 2 days from one post to the next, there was something going on for a much greater time than that and a more detailed explanation of their enclosure, behaviors, how you care for them, etc may have helped someone to better help you. I realize that you knew you were in need of help and disappointed that someone couldn't tell you to do some imparticular thing to make your frog plump and healthy again - but you can't really blame anyone for that or him dying. If something was so far advanced that he died in 2 days we likely couldn't have been of much help anyways. So for future reference, trust your gut and if you think something is happening with your frogs that is more than a simple "don't worry about it" situation, either be more persistent in finding help and info or go consult a vet.
If you still have tank mates of the frog who passed, you may want to look into finding out what went wrong as it could be contagious and affect any others as well. You can post all details of their care and set up here and we can try to pinpoint any problems or as I said consult a vet.
Again, I am sorry for your loss and wish you the best of luck.
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Happy Frogging!!!

~Becki~

I am not blaming anyone, first off. I am just saying that there are more important issues than what species are living together. It seems that everytime someone posts something about mixing species, millions of people come out of the woodworks to give their opinion. Its almost as if they are waiting for such a post so that they can be jerks.

I just hope that people will pay attention to posts that are in need of advice and/or help. Thats what these forums are about.

As Becki said, we are sorry that your frog passed. Please try to understand that there are far more people asking questions than there are answering them sometimes and some of us do have other forums to check and respond to. I personally post at about 4 forums per day and am trying to return to this one. Now what we do is scan the new questions for urgency and answer them accordingly. You posted about healthy RETFs seeming skinny suddenly, which is generally a common and normal thing. Frogs can and will "shrink" according to many factors, i.e., their last meal, if they have soaked recently, the humidity, when they last eliminated etc. What the poster who answered you (whom by the way does know her stuff) replied was correct for a normal situation. So no one else posted because we figured the issue was closed. There was nothing in your post that would have made anyone assume that your frog was ill. You asked if it was something that we had seen before, and you were told it was. Unfortunately that loss of mass was associated with something else that we could have no idea about.
Now the mixed tank issue was urgent. That's why people "jumped out of the woodwork" to address it. Species mixing is one of those hot topics among collectors, and when it comes up people like to make their position known. In this instance you cannot compare the amount of posts that situation got to your own. Like Becki said, we are sorry that your frog died, but given the information you gave us it wasn't necessary that hoards of people give you a response. Now I hope this doesn't turn you off of the boards here, if anything let this be a reminder to everybody who reads this post that it is better to provide standard information every time you have a health question. Let us know the specifications of the set up: Temps, humidity, enclosure size, tank mates, etc. Heck I even like to know the last time they ate! It just makes it easier to determine what is urgent and what is not. Once again, we are sorry for your loss, but there was nothing we could do to prevent it.
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*~~Whitney~~*

There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.

I wonder if there is anyway we could provide a kind of "flow sheet," that people with a sick frog could use to explain problems the first time more explicitly. Something like a medical questionaire might work. I know that a lot of time is wasted over addressing a post that says nothing but "Help!! my frog is sick!" We have to each ask specific questions about it first, as they occur to us. This wastes a lot of time. If the first person comes up with an adequate evaluation, the rest of us may tend to demur and don't think much more about it. Maybe having a kind of form, something that asks the species, habitat set up, humidity, temperature, then goes through the symptoms like appetite, activity, etc. would be helpful to the poster as well as those trying to help with the problem. I think one could be designed somehow that would help everyone from the go-get. Is it possible to include something like this on the forum?

We do really tend to get more involved with our mutual pet peeves such as mixing incompatible species, and feel secure about what we think and know about it, so there are a lot of posts on these actually more simple, cut and dried issues.
We tend to get more into something that is patently wrong and outrages us mutually, so everyone posts a redundant opinion on it. On the other hand, the more complicated problems need to be presented precicely, and the poster usually needs help doing this, because he or she doesn't know everything to look for and report.

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
3 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
4 D. leukomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus pending

WOW, three excellent posts in a row! Thanks again Patty for the intellectual insight, if only I had that kind of vocabulary...

I would like to point out Remedy, that it is YOU that has the moral obligation to provide your pets with the best care possible. These forums operate on a volunteer basis only, I currently have a thesis to write but I'm spending my time here because I want to see the captive care of amphibians improve. I would expect anybody who decides to spend the money on a relatively sensitive animal to have a proportionate amount of knowledge about that animal and the general biology of amphibians. Therefore, the blame rests solely on you for not getting that frog immediate veterinary care when it was needed. These forums can be awfully slow and if there is something truly life-threatening, time should not be wasted waiting for responses.

The people who respond on a regular basis on this forum, can only answer questions on topics they are knowledgeable about. I know nothing about redeye tree frogs, and really do not care for them. I have no problems skipping over a redeye tree frog question when I have seven other forums I need to get to. Make it your responsibility for the death of the frog and not ours.
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...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes

I'm sorry about your frog, I might have been some help if I visited this forum more than when someone on thefrog.org posts a link to it. That was the only reason I was in here. If you have any more problems please post on as many forums as you want so you can get more peoples attention, and possibly get better and quicker help. I wish you the best of luck with your other frog(s).
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http://joshmilliken.tripod.com/

every response, with the exception of amazinglyricist, missed the point. I am not blaming anyone but myself for the death of the frog. [bleep] happens, not every hatchling is meant to reach sexual maturity.

My point in all this is that if as many people who respond to "mixing species" posts responded to more posts of different subjects, then the forum will be more useful to everyone.

Maybe you missed the point of a previous post. As that poster said, most people are not going to post if they know nothing about the subject. Not everyone here keeps RETFs. Now if you want advice from people that don't know what in the world they are talking about then thats on you. You got an answer. It's not like your post was buried with no response. What did you want?
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*~~Whitney~~*

There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.

I personally make an effort to answer posts that I think that most of the regulars won't answer. But this IS a problem that is not simple to remedy. I highly encourage you to stick around this forum and try to make a difference in answering posts.
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...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes

It is not our job to answer the questions posted here, so we can answer which ever posts we feel like. I had no information to contribute to your post so I did not answer it.
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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

Like others, I didn't respond because Alex pretty much said what I would have said.
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Heather
Dozer & ZeroCool

Thanks for the support, everyone. Also, I think a flow sheet is a great idea. Sometimes, you just need a vet.

Now, Remedy, let me let you in on a little secret... RETFs do that all the time. They eat and are fat and two days later they look, well, anorexic. You just have to make sure to feed them again. I tried to help you, but, I really don't think your problem with the RETF dying had anything to do with that. People here didn't respond because they either don't keep RETFs, or, if they do, know RETFs do that.

You're the one who's missing the point of the forum if you're going to tell us what we should and shouldn't post about. It's a free forum. Also, if you had a problem with my answer, you should've replied to it with further preoccupations, because your original question was really brief. If you would've said anything about any other problems with the frog, we would have tried to advise you as best we could. However, if you're ever really worried about an animal, it belongs at the vet's office.

You can't blame us for what happened to your frog. My RETFs are perfectly fine; I'm not doing things wrong with them. I'm really sorry your frog died--and I feel bad when any captive animal dies--but it's certainly not our fault and we don't merit attacks. In fact, the only person you excluded from your attacks was Josh (amazinglyricist) just because he was sympathetic towards your loss. Well, Josh didn't do any of the things you're complaining we didn't do or did any of the things you're complaining we did do, so your argument, just there, has lost any credability. We, basically, can tell what you're mad about and don't appreciate it being blamed on us. I'm sorry for being harsh, but if this is what we get for trying to help...

Anyway, I don't like problems and I rather just see this be taken as a lesson well learned on your part. People aren't here to serve you and people won't take it well when you hold it against them that they have their own problems or post where they see fit. I hope you don't hold a grudge because of this, and we'd like to help us if you want our help, but be specific and be nice.
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Got hips like Cinderella / Must be having a good shame / Talking sweet about nothing / Cookie I think you're Tame