Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Saturday morning I awoke to yells of 'come get your frog'. Scrambling out of bed, I found two of my housemates in the hall, pointing to one of the Sipp froglets I got the weekend before. One of them said that the frog had almost been stepped on. After scooping the froglet up and returning him to the bin, I had a hard look at it. I chose this particular style of bin becaus the bottom lip is recessed into the lid when it is closed:

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I was gonna have ansi to show the defects, but the forum doesn't like it. I'll take pictures later to fill in the gaps.

However, looking closely at the area around the latch, I noticed two tiny gaps (about 1/6th" by 1/2" each) where the latching mechanism on the lid fits into the bottom:

I used a folded napkin to plug the gaps, and it worked well for several days. However, this moring the napkin was not in place, and there was only one frog in the bin. I found the other one's prophetically squashed body at the end of the hall. I checked on them last night because their hygrometer was malfunctioning (it got water in it), and they were both fine. I don't remember if the napkin was there when I finished, but I'm sure I would have noticed if it wasn't there. The computer is in my room along with the frogs, so there's lots of traffic at all hours. Someone else could have looked in on them too and forgotten to replace it. I have moved the remaining Sipp into another bin temporarily. He's fine, and the

Still, the blame falls entirely on myself. Everything seems to have come together for the worst possible outcome. I'm amazed that the frog managed to find the gaps not once, but twice, as they cover only 1 inch total in a bin that's 16" by 16". I'm very sorry that I have caused two frogs to die needless and entirely preventable deaths. I just want others to learn from my mistakes, so hopefully no more frogs will perish:

Mistake #1: I should have examined the bin more closely before using it.
Mistake #2: I should have changed the bin when the frog escaped the first time, instead of relying on a jury rigged fix.

Very hard and expensive lessons to learn.

Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Sorry to hear about the two frogs. I think that most everyone who has kept dart frogs for a long period of time has had an escape or two and can relate to your situation. Makeshift covers and tanks always seem like a good idea at the time but later you always find yourself wanting to hit your head against the wall for the mistake you made. All covers for terrariums that house small animals need to be checked over well for any small gaps or holes. If there is a gap either silicone some fine screening over it or buy a new cover. I think its a lesson that you only really learn after you have had a frog escape. Sorry again about the frogs and good luck to you in the future,
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Devin
devin@amphibiancare.com
www.amphibiancare.com
3.2 Dendrobates tinctorius 'Dwarf French Guiana'
1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
5.1 Mantella aurantiaca
2.1 Mantella crocea
1.0 Ceratophrys cranwelli
1.0 Bufo americanus
0.0.1 Salamandra salamandra
1.0 Ambystoma tigrinum
0.1 Chamaeleo calyptratus
0.1 Phelsuma dubia
1.1 Uroplatus ebenaui
0.0.1 Chrysemys scripta
0.0.1 Chrysemys picta belli
1.0 Terrapene carolina triunguis

What are the dimensions of the holes you have had escapes through? I am just wondering how ridiculously small they can make themselves.

Thanks
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Matt

I had a young vent get out of crack less than 1/8 of an inch
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2.2.3 Orange Leucs
1.0 ventrimactulatus Blue leg
0.0.4 Orange galact

Always looking for female vents and plants

Here is a depiction of the "crack" I have. The blue is the front acrylic wall of my tank, minus the side walls. The green is the wood frame around the top....it goes all the way around. The purple is the hood top that sits on top of the acrylis walls but is sunk into the rim. There is a crack 1/8" at most between the rim and hood, then you turn the corner and there may or may not be a gap between the hood and acrylic....depends on how straight I cut the acrylic. I am hoping that the corner will prevent any escapes, because even if he can squeeze to an 1/8" inch, he will have to bend 90 degrees and do it again....what do you think?

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Matt

I think silicone costs less than $3.00 per tube.
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Homer W. Faucett III, esq.
Purveyor of Trivialities and Fine Nonsense

Following the oft-repeated mantra of reducing gaps to prevent fruit fly escapes has worked well for me. I have found that PDFs have little to do all day but play "Prison Escape". IME they see feeding time to be ripe with opportunity for escape. I know a few that made a lucky leap as the lid opened - an next time tried the same (once proven) technique.

I would reduce ALL gaps, holes etc. to prevent ANY possibility of escape by a determined pdf. It will also keep WFFs inside where they belong.

Dartz

Another escape event by my adult proven piar of vents was the time they some how got through a hole half the size of small cord (the size of your mouse cord). Dart frogs can really get small and bend bones when they need to.
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2.2.3 Orange Leucs
1.0 ventrimactulatus Blue leg
0.0.4 Orange galact

Always looking for female vents and plants

Hi Matt,

I lost an adult dwarf french guiana tinctorius through a gap in my bow front aquarium's cover that was roughly 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch. Found the frog a few hours later walking across the floor covered in dust. Quarantined it for a few days, used some pedialyte and now the frog is fine. Talk to you later,
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Devin
devin@amphibiancare.com
www.amphibiancare.com
3.2 Dendrobates tinctorius 'Dwarf French Guiana'
1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
5.1 Mantella aurantiaca
2.1 Mantella crocea
1.0 Ceratophrys cranwelli
1.0 Bufo americanus
0.0.1 Salamandra salamandra
1.0 Ambystoma tigrinum
0.1 Chamaeleo calyptratus
0.1 Phelsuma dubia
1.1 Uroplatus ebenaui
0.0.1 Chrysemys scripta
0.0.1 Chrysemys picta belli
1.0 Terrapene carolina triunguis

...to get the frogs, hope they don't get out, and find/fix the problem if they do.

Thanks
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Matt

On all my tanks, I use full glass lids that I have cut at Home Depot for usually less than $6 (I have had great success with my plants without ventilation...living in a desert drys out the tank ridiculously with only a small amount of holes). You can buy a hinge at an aquarium store that will not leave a gap for about the same price as the glass. Most pre-made aquarium lids have gaps which I would consider too large to use. When you buy a tank, don't buy the hood/top they want you to get with it. These are designed for aquarium fish which will not climb glass (save mud skippers) en route to freedom. Depending on the size of the tank, it will save you a huge amount of money. If you plan on growing anything but pothos, the single tube fluorescent will not be a sufficient enough light source anyways.

If you have a cord coming out from the tank, purchase the plastic strip (used for cutting space for power filters in aquariums) that will fit on the back of the glass lid at the aquarium store (take this into consideration when getting your measurements to have glass cut). You can easily cut this plastic strip to have room for the cord and no more.

I also find that being extrememly paranoid about escaping frogs is also beneficial. I spend five minutes checking the upper reaches of my imitator vivarium before opening the top.
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David Knight
Tempe, AZ

3.0.1 D. imitator
2.0.3 D. leucomelas
0.1.3 P. terribilis (mint)
0.0.2 D. azureus
0.0.1 D. tinctorius (Alanis)
0.0.4 D. auratus (Panamanian green and bronze)
1.1 M. madagascariensis
1.0 P. hypochondrialis

I do the same thing, all of my glass lids are cut at home depot. Then I order acrylic knobs and hinges over the internet. I live in UT and AZ, 2 of the most dry states in the US, I have all glass lids the same as you. I have been doing this for a couple years now to keep in the moisture and prevent escapes, plus it ends up being a lot cheaper, about $4 total for a 10 gallon lid with a hinge and knob.

tonysly

I am extremely paranoid with my frog containers, I only use shoeboxes for my frogs when there in quarantine, and I have never had a escape, plus I cover the top with saran wrap to keep the humidity in which is another barrier for them, they get enough ventilation when I open the top to feed them. I also am paranoid when it comes to my tops on the tanks, I have 1/4" glass on top of my tanks a stationary piece of glass and a smaller piece I pick up to feed and mist them, there are no gaps in these tops I dont even have fruitflies escape. And be careful when opening the cages because like somebody else said they love jumping out when you open the top to feed them, especially one of my green and bronze auratus froglets. So the moral of this story is always check the tops for even the smallest holes even if you think there not big enough for a frog to get out of, chances are they might be able to squeeze through.I've also had one of my frogs escape it was a female leuc and it escaped out of a temporary cage which was not a shoebox (I learned from this experience to not use containers with latches)I noticed she was missing a couple of hours later and found her near the water containers, it was only a few hours out of the cage and she already looked dehydrated.So i suggest if your frogs are just froglets keep them in a plastic shoebox with saran wrap between the top of the box and the lid.
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1.2 Leucomelas
1.1 Green and Bronze Auratus
0.0.2 Imitators
0.0.1 Vents (more soon)
0.0.4 Nicaraguan Green and Black Auratus
0.0.3 Powder Blue Tincs (soon)