Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I picked this little bugger up in Florida this past summer on a trade. He was labled as A.l.lubricus but I have my doubts. In my observations with this sp it would seem tha all true A.l.lubricus I have witnessed in the states have banding which in circles the entire body all of the way down to the tail. These little guys only have 2 or 3 bands which go completly around the neck and thats it. This is very common on almost every specimen of A.l.infuscatus I have seen and on none of the TRUE lubricus lubicus. The problem is that the parents of this one came from a very reputable dealer and were purchased as A.l.lubricus.

I guess the best way I can find out their true ID is by doing a sub caudal count but they are way too small at this point and I forgot to save their last sheds So, being the impatient person that I am I ask those of you who are knowledgeable about the sp to give me insight. Due to their more drab colors and different banding, untill proven otherwise I will simply consider them infuscatus.

Welp, thanks in advance to any who reply.

Best regards,
Jeremy

Just for comaprison this is what I concider true A.l.lubricus to look like. If you look closely you can see that the bands go all of the way around. I will attempt to get a belly shot of each baby for those who might like to see.

Thanks and best regards,
Jeremy

I have 188 True A. l. lubricus, several infuscatus as well as numerous scutatus.
The one in your picture looks to me to be a cross between the l.lubricus and infuscatus
A lot of breeders (even reputable breeders) are crossing the two because of the lack of true l. lubricus in the country.
Just my two cents.

n/p

Hey man,
I agree and have thought the same thing my self regarding intergrades. However, I have seen pics of WC infuscatus from a fellow over in South Africa and they can look very similar to lubricus. Intergrades can look identicle!!! I wish I da the email he had sent me years back. He had many photos includeing one of a neat, high orange lubricus with thin chevron shaped banding as opposed to the typical circle ones. He also had a pic of a WC female at over 28 inches!! Said it was far and away the largest he had ever seen! My baby girl blows that away (she is 34!)but for a WC, that pretty dang impresive!! What would be the largest female in your collection?

Well man, for right now I would have to agree with you but its so hard because I have seen pics of identicle animals which were found well into pure infuscatus range. However, I know how people here in the states are with them and would not be suprised at all if they were intergrades. Going to be bothersome lableing them when I produced those little buggers in a few years!! Oh well.

Thanks for youur insight.

Later,
Jeremy