Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I swear I have searched this forum (only the first page, but I am out of time for surfing), and I have a few questions.

I am currently housing 0.2 females, (the male was fed to my ball python when I realized our 2nd litter was cooking, and the snake was hungry). The first litter was 10 babies, and is about 3-4 weeks old. Their mom is getting the ping-pong ball look. the second female seems to be getting fat, but I can't tell any real change yet.

I am using cedar to help keep odor down. It works so well, but I have read previously that some kinds of bedding are bad for breating in the dust... can you offer some light on this?

I have read here that rats do well with newspaper - do mice, as well? does the smell get stronger with this? The cedar is doing so well, I hope it's safe!

I currently have all of the mice in one tank - larger than 10 gallon, but I don't know what size. It seems about twice the space, but is really, really tall. I like the idea of keeping them in rubbermaids, and stack them up. (They are currently in my laundry room, and I don't really have room for more than one tank.) Can I punch small air holes in the side of the rubbermaids, and trust that the mice will not chew their way out? Do I need to provide an exercise wheel in each one, or is this just a luxury?

My mice do not seem to like or utilize the water bottle, they prefer a bowl of water. I change it every day, so it's not a big deal... I don't want to get too many babies going, we are only feeding one snake until next year when we get a dumeril. I am feeding some rodent mix that they do well with. The babies are hoppers, and are eating solid food now. That's a good sign.

Thanks for all your help. I finally discovered this forum today. I'll be here a lot!

Muggle

I don't think it is the dust that is problematic with cedar, but rather the oils. I am not sure of it's effect on rats but cedar is poisonous to reptiles. I wouldn't use it.

I also wouldn’t use newspaper. It will get soiled too quickly and once wet it seems to stick to everything and it does nothing to prevent odor.

I prefer aspen, either shavings or pellets, or rabbit feed. I go for the cheapest feed I can find, usually $8/50#, and use about 1” layer in the bottom of the tank/tub.

I would not trust them not to chew through holes in the sides of Rubbermaid tubs. In fact, providing a hole is inviting them to chew their way out. Also, I have had some mice and rats chew their way out of this type of tub without any holes. If there is a ridge or edge of any sort available they will chew at it until they make a hole. Many here use cat litter pan or cement mixing pans. These don’t have any of the square edges or ridges that most storage tubs do.

An exercise wheel is just a luxury. You really want your mice to be busy doing other things anyway I have found that anything I put in the tank gets covered with smelly, sticky, yellow excretions form the male marking his territory. YUCH!! If you want to give them anything give them paper towel or toilet paper tubes. These can be tossed with the litter. Some wheels are also dangerous for the mice as they can get caught between the crossbar and the wheel. I just wouldn’t mess with it.

I don’t know why your mice wouldn’t use a water bottle. I think the bowl is a real potential problem. They drag litter and feces into it making their only water source unfit for drinking. There is also the problem with the babies falling in and drowning or not being able to drink at all. I would recommend that you go with a water bottle and if they get thirsty they will learn to use it. Make sure the ball is not stuck so that water will drip when they lick and that the tube isn’t too high or too low for them to easily and comfortably be able to drink from it.

Good luck with your mice.

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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

Thanks for the reply. I'll get rid of the cedar tonight. Good thing I asked!

I'll also replace the water bottle tonight. little stinkers will just have to figure it out.

I saw that mouse rack made from one of the rolling rubbermaid carts- I so totally love that idea! Do people use those for their snakes, too? Don't these drawers have the corners where the mice will chew?

Thanks again!
Muggle

Cedar is toxic to mice due to the oils it excrets (ie the reason why it smells so nice). Pine does the same thing but not as problematic as cedar. Aspen is probably the best substrate to use for mice. There is CareFresh as well but I find it highly dusty, despite what the package says.

I line the bottom of 115L rubbermaid containers with newspaper than cover it with aspen shavings. The newspaper occuries the mice as they spend hours shredding it to make nests. Exercise wheels should be in with the mice, it keeps them from getting fat. However the solid or mesh bottom wheels are best as there is little to no chance of mice breaking legs if they slip off the bars while running on the wheel.

The rubbermaid contain I use is deep enough you don't need to put the lid on it at all. The mice can't climb up the smooth sides. So if you don't have anything in the house that might want to jump into your mice bin and chow down..don't both with the lid. If you do, just cut large holes in the lid and cover with aluminum screen or 1/4 inch wire mesh, taping it down with duct tape.

With no male left in your colony, how do you expect to breed your females later on? You could breed a son to the mother but this sort of inbreeding isn't recommended for long term. If your snake will eat frozen thawed mice, it is good to store them in the freezer (the mice, not the snake) this way should something happen, you have some food in the freezer for your snake.

A comment about male mice, they will always scent mark their territory no matter what you do. The more your clean the more he will scent mark to feel secure. A non aersol odour nuetralizer in the room could help with odours to some extent, just make sure it is safe for pets. I have also read somebody boiling cinnamen sticks and leaving a cup of the water in the room to help hide the odours. Another solution is a small wide bowl of regular vinegar placed near (but not in) the male's cage.

We have 3 cats in the house, so I will have to keep a lid on the bin. I will be changing to aspen this weekend - I planned on doing it last night, but the human children in my house took priority. We are not planning to feed the snake for quite a while (a couple of weeks, so the hoppers can grow some more), so with regular bedding changes we should be able to get the cedar oil off of the mice first. A huge THANK YOU on the oil info from the cedar. I had no idea!

>>With no male left in your colony, how do you expect to breed your females later on? You could breed a son to the mother but this sort of inbreeding isn't recommended for long term. If your snake will eat frozen thawed mice, it is good to store them in the freezer (the mice, not the snake) this way should something happen, you have some food in the freezer for your snake.

-- I have not tried any f/t mice with my snake yet, but my better half is totally opposed to having mice, even triple-wrapped, in the freezer. I will be using one of the males from the first litter to breed with the unrelated female I have. I planned it before I fed the male to the snake. Then I will have plenty of mice to last for a while. I only feed the snake about every 2-3 weeks, so 3 litters of mice should last me forever! LOL Actually, a friend of ours wants to buy some of the mice from me. I want to keep a pretty small mouse factory going here...

I am actually going to get some cinnamon water going this weekend - getting in the holiday spirit - but I love the vanilla idea in the water! How clever!!

Thanks for all the wonderful input! I am going to post a question for the guy that had the rubbermaid rack system specifically, and see what I can learn from him.

thanks again!
Muggle

God I'm glad I read this.... and I hope I caught it in time. DO NOT give them cinnamon water. It's one teaspoon of imatation vanilla extract to a gallon of water.

MissHisssss

I have been using the rack idea for about 2 weeks but they were able to chew a corner and so I have scraped the idea....

You'll be amazed at the difference in odor if you add some imatation vanilla extract to their drinking water. A teaspoon per gallon.

I LOVE these forums
MissHisssss

If you mean the black 3 drawer thing...that's me. It's going on 3 months now, and I've had 0 problems. One VERY important note:
what I am using isn't rubbermaid, or Sterlite. I have seen the rubbermaid version of this thing, and it does have corners inside that can be chewed. I don't remember what brand this is, but I got it from target. I will go there and sometime this week and post the brand name

Okay.. I checked last night. The brand name is IRIS. Hope that helps