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Go silkworms!

clickman Nov 06, 2003 05:19 PM

Geez, I'm ever more impressed by silkworms... They're better in nearly every way than crickets.

They can be fed at a wider range of sizes for smaller beardies, since they have little if any chitin... They're very soft to the touch.

You need less. This corresponds with above --- you can feed a larger size than you would for crickets.

An escaped silkworm isn't going to do much --- very easy to catch (A dirty white that stands out and slow) and won't freak people out as much as a cricket will.

Less/no smell.

More calcium. Unlike crickets (1:1 calciumhosphorous ratio AFAIK) they have a positive ratio. Because of this, I'd reccomend them for beardies recovering from MBD.

I love these things, and so do my leos and my beardie.
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Zeo)
0.2.0 Leopard Geckos (Vienna, Unnamed)
1.0.0 Golden Retriever, Rocky, 10 years young

Replies (17)

LauraV Nov 06, 2003 05:38 PM

While my beardies will occationally eat them, my Leos look at them like they are aliens from another planet - they won't go near them.
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Photos

JLJ2018 Nov 06, 2003 09:13 PM

I've thought long and hard about getting silkworms due to them not smelling like crix do...but I'd have to ship them in, and buying a 1000 worms for just one baby beardie is just a tad bit overkill. Raising them doesn't seem to be the easiest thing to do either. Wish someone around here sold them, they sound like they're great.

Heather Nov 07, 2003 06:47 AM

Except that they are ugly as sin! I got some at the last herp show. I refuse to touch them. I stick My bare hand with a 1000 crickets but I will not touch one of those worms. Nasty.... My beardies love them. But They get fed with tongs! LOL I'm a wuss, I know... Also, they're so darn expensive! I think it was 15 or so in a container, It was like 6-8 bucks each container! I got two containers cause I couldn't afford more! Where do you get a thousand of them? How much is that??
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2.0 Iguanas, 2.4 Beardies, 1.2.1 Saharan/Nigerian Uromastyx, 0.0.2 Leos, 0.0.1 African Fat Tail, 1.0 Columbian Rainbow Boa, 0.0.1 Fla Garter Snake, 0.1 eastern garter, 0.0.1 Banded California King Snake (M.I.A.), 0.0.1 Corn Snake, 0.0.3 Fire Belly Toads, 1.0 Eastern Painted Turtle, 0.0.1 African Sideneck, 2 Horses (soon to be three {Baby next May!!!}), 4 cats, 1 dog, and I'm still not done.....

wideglide Nov 07, 2003 07:17 AM

www.mulberryfarms.com

I think the worst deal they have there is 150 small for $15.00!!

You may think they're ugly as sin but spend a little time with them. I bet you won't think so eventually. I read stories to mine and sit down for dinner with them. I'm kidding!! It sounded strange saying spend a little time with them so I went with it. If you haven't already try and pick one up. They are very soft and just look up and wonder what you're doing with that big, fat, round head.

Anyway, they really cause no problems whatsoever. You'll get used to them and it's definitely worth the extra cost in my opinion.

Personally, I think they are extremely easy to keep and raise. A hell of a lot easier than crickets! No water to change, easy to catch (just pick it up), virtually no smell except for the silkworm chow which isn't bad at all.
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Rob

WackyTabaccy Nov 07, 2003 08:15 AM

np

Heather Nov 07, 2003 08:17 AM

Are they easy to breed? I'd love to not ever have to get crickets again. I get them as treats now but If the silkies are that much better, I'll get them as treats instead of crickets. However I'd prefer to be able to breed and raise my own if that were possible... Not surprized I got ripped. But they were the only ones there that had them (probably why they were so much...) and I wanted to try them. Anyway, thanks for the info....

PS: I was gonna reccomend you get some.... help.... If you actually did read to them.... LOL
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2.0 Iguanas, 2.4 Beardies, 1.2.1 Saharan/Nigerian Uromastyx, 0.0.2 Leos, 0.0.1 African Fat Tail, 1.0 Columbian Rainbow Boa, 0.0.1 Fla Garter Snake, 0.1 eastern garter, 0.0.1 Banded California King Snake (M.I.A.), 0.0.1 Corn Snake, 0.0.3 Fire Belly Toads, 1.0 Eastern Painted Turtle, 0.0.1 African Sideneck, 2 Horses (soon to be three {Baby next May!!!}), 4 cats, 1 dog, and I'm still not done.....

wideglide Nov 07, 2003 08:51 AM

I did have to spend some time getting things the way I wanted to breed them. Once that has been setup I think they are very easy to breed. I've probably got 2500 eggs in my fridge and I've had silkies for a little over a month and a half.

I don't have time right now to put together a care sheet for them but I will do that in the next couple of days and post it here. Here's the basics.

The worms & coccoons:

Temps anywhere from 67-88. I've had them at the low end but not the high end. Mine generally stay 67-75 and do fine.

I keep them in a plastic rubbermaid tub with fairly low sides under a clamp lamp that is on during the day.

I feed them silkworm chow once a day (no water is necessary). Tiny worms get it grated right on top while bigger worms get chunks placed here and there.

You will be able to tell when they are ready to spin coccoons. I use toilet paper rolls cut into thirds dipped in parafin wax.

Takes about 3 days to spin then about a week and a half to hatch. Before hatching I get a hint of a strong odor every once in a while but only right next to my coccoons. I think it's either the liquid they use to dissolve the coccoons or a few that are decaying and have failed to hatch. Haven't narrowed it down yet.

Keep hatched moths at same temp and I separate males and females and place them in small, wax paper lined, rubermaid containers with lids and holes. When I have one of each they both go into a container, do their thing, and lay eggs (200-500) in about a day. Then they get fed to the dragons. I only feed the moths to the big dragon because I haven't found any info on the level of undigestible material in the moths yet.

The eggs:

Once eggs are layed I wait for them to turn from yellow to black and do one of two things. I either place them in the fridge for up to 5 years or put them in the incubator at 88 degress and about 75-80% humidity. When incubating eggs you don't have to have an incubator but it's a good idea. Details later.

The eggs will incubate for about 3 weeks and then hatch. Now I haven't hatched any eggs as of yet but everything seems to be exactly as it should and I should have some newborns in about a week.

If you want to get a head start on the care here's some websites to check out. As always there's a lot of conflicting info and I have found one or two indicate there's a lot more you need to do than is really necessary.

http://www.chateau-michel.org/silkworm_class.htm
http://www.pclaunch.com/~kayton/Silkworms/raising.htm
http://www.sericulum.com/index.html

These are what I have bookmarked but there's a couple more I have found I can't remember. Do a net search on silkworms and you'll find them. I think the best is the first listed.

***I accidentally dropped a big one next to my small dragon and she ate it without any problems. I was surprised and don't normally feed them that big to her. It took her some time to get it down but everything was fine. I think it's easier on the small BD's to feed the smaller worms but that shows me there's not much chance of impaction. Again, I don't suggest big worms for little dragons. Kinda like eating a whole cheeseburger in one bite. It won't hurt you but it will be a pain in the #@$ to eat!

OK, I've typed too much now. Like I said I'll put something together this weekend but check out the sites I listed.
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Rob

WackyTabaccy Nov 07, 2003 09:01 AM

np

wideglide Nov 07, 2003 09:12 AM

>>np
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Rob

veronicag Nov 07, 2003 10:43 AM

Thank you so much for all of this great info! I've wanted to start raising my own silkworms for quite some time now, but I just haven't done it yet. I think I definately will have to give it a try after you write your care sheet.

I do have one question for you ... do you use Mulberry Farms silkworm chow, or do you use Mulberry leaves, or is there some kind of recipe for making your own chow?

Veronica
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Beautiful Dragons

wideglide Nov 07, 2003 10:59 AM

My pleasure. I use the silkworm chow from Mulberryfarms. I've thought about trying to find a recipe for the chow but then after I thought about it, the chow is made with mulberry leaves so if I had access to those I'd just feed them the leaves !

From what I understand the leaves are easier and maybe a little tastier than the chow. I don't think there's a difference in nutrition but MulberryFarms says sometimes, if they are in season, they will ship worms with the leaves. If they are already eating the leaves they say the worms won't switch to the chow until they are very hungry. I think it's a flavor thing.

I find the chow to be the only recurring expense in raising them.

BTW, when I'm done with it, I'd like to put that care sheet on your website if you check it out and think it's ok.
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Rob

veronicag Nov 07, 2003 11:22 AM

I'll do it! And if there is a way we could get some photos of how you have it set up that would be great too! I can't wait to read your care sheet. Thanks so much! I'll be in touch. Have a great weekend!

Veronica
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Beautiful Dragons

wideglide Nov 07, 2003 12:26 PM

>>I'll do it! And if there is a way we could get some photos of how you have it set up that would be great too! I can't wait to read your care sheet. Thanks so much! I'll be in touch. Have a great weekend!
>>
>>Veronica
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>>Beautiful Dragons
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Rob

LdyPayne Nov 07, 2003 12:54 PM

I have been using silkworms for my dragon's primary source of insect food for several months now and find them far superior to crickets anyday. My dragon think so to as she is reluctant to eat crickets now, when I buy them inbetween shipments of more silkies. I keep mine under a heat lamp attached to the edge of a rubbermaid container now that my average room temperature is on the cool side (about 68-70F)

I tried hatching some silkworms from eggs but only managed to get about 10 out of approximately 1000 eggs, so obviously I am doing something wrong. Once I get around to building a proper incubator, will try the eggs again.

I always buy between 100-250 one inch sized worms with the single dragon I have. By the time I finish maybe half the worms, they have doubled in size and the amount I need to feed my dragon halves...so an order of 250 worms typically last me several months.

wideglide Nov 07, 2003 01:59 PM

>>I have been using silkworms for my dragon's primary source of insect food for several months now and find them far superior to crickets anyday. My dragon think so to as she is reluctant to eat crickets now, when I buy them inbetween shipments of more silkies. I keep mine under a heat lamp attached to the edge of a rubbermaid container now that my average room temperature is on the cool side (about 68-70F)
>>
>>I tried hatching some silkworms from eggs but only managed to get about 10 out of approximately 1000 eggs, so obviously I am doing something wrong. Once I get around to building a proper incubator, will try the eggs again.
>>
>>I always buy between 100-250 one inch sized worms with the single dragon I have. By the time I finish maybe half the worms, they have doubled in size and the amount I need to feed my dragon halves...so an order of 250 worms typically last me several months.
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Rob

shortydsm Nov 08, 2003 02:25 PM

...but my beardies & my water dragon & even my anoles will eat them.
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Danielle
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1.0 Chinese water dragon, 0.3 leos, 1.0 adopted iguana, 0.0.2 beardies, 2.0 green anoles, 1.0 blue anole and 2.2 bettas ~My Pets~

mabelbomb Nov 07, 2003 01:21 PM

We use nothing but silkworms now, they are absolutely the best thing since white bread. The smell isn't there from crickets and alot less mess. We looked into them when we got our chameleon and then started everyone on them, its like crack to every herp here in this house they absolutely love them. The only cricket eater we still have is the day gecko for some reason they must gross him out, its very funny to watch him try to eat one. I recommend them for anyone who doesn't want the mess of crickets and also for apartment livers alot less of a container to mess with. =) I also think they last just as long as crickets to me and if anyone wonders about if they measure up to crickets they do. 1 silkworm = 1 cricket.

The herps that love the silkworms are 2 golden geckos, 2 leopard geckos, 2 salamanders, 1 crested gecko, 5 bearded dragons, 1 chameleon, 1 agama. So I have a wide range of herps eating silkworms.

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