Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm sorry but i can't stay quiet anymore. Like Fritz said, to many peole are coming on here with the expectation that theres a simple solution to some very serious problems.

Leopard geckos, LIKE ANY OTHER PET, shouldn't be bought unless your willing to do the research, take the time and spend the money. Frankly i'm very very upset that anyone would buy a pet without knowing the basics and not have the supplies to care for it all ready.

AND if your going to come on here and ask for advice then get all uptight about whats been said and not use the advice, stop asking!!!!!! The people on here have kept leos for a long time, have alot of experience and are only to happy to help out. Telling them that their knowledge isn't worth the time or effort is just plain rude!

There are some *given* musts for leos; sand (or any loose substrate) risks impaction, an under tanks heater is a MUST, calcium also a must, provided to them all the time and no they don't eat veggies.

Please please please, if you wish to keep these wonderful animals, treat them no differently than you would expect them to treat YOU if you were in the tank. Get the books, and read.

Sorry for the rant but i couldnt' help it anymore.

Red
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

I agree. I've stopped reading a lot of threads partially due to that.
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Well sit right down my wicked son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am with my hand

He took his sister from his head
And then painted her on the sheets
And then rolled her up in grass and trees
And they kissed 'till they were dead

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

Well sit right down my evil son
And let me tell you a story
About the boy who fell from glory
And how he was a wicked son

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

This ain't no holiday
But it always turns out this way
Here I am, with my hand

if you have AIM, IM me at chichandoCONrosa

hehe i understand how you feel, sometimes i think that way and stop posting for a while - especially when that same post is still on the main page that people can just read. nonetheless, i believe we should still try to help the "newbs" out coz we were all newbs ourselves. the whole point of this forum is to seek advice to improve the health and conditions of our leos while sharing their similarities and the fascinating stories and pictures we have... n they'll be part of it too, as long as they can keep up their leo's health. after i realized this, i started posting again to answer all the questions i can, even though i just answered it on the same page - copy & paste - if they get offended, then that's their own fault - but at least they'll know what to do when their question is answered - thus, another healthy leo and a more knowledgable owner who can assist others when they need help.

so i feel your pain, but then again - we have to feel theirs too~

[aimEe]
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0.1.0 Albino Leopard Gecko (Marlene)
0.0.2 Fire Bellied Toads (Norman & Forman)
1.0.0 Fighting Fish (Blue Balls)
1.0.0 Black Lab / Pit Bull (Mikey)
aimee.i8.com

But i'm still completely dumbfounded by it all. I don't understand why people won't read and learn at least the basics. Its when people ask questions about "what do i need" when they already have the gecko that really bothers me. They should have everything set up beforehand.

My frustration is only due to a great concern for the well being of the gecko. I hope i'm not coming across as rude or mean, i just feel so sorry for the geckos out there that aren't getting the proper care. I know the forum will continue to help as much as we all can. Its a great place and i'm glad i found it

Red
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

oh no, you didn't come off as rude or mean at all i've seen you around, so i know you're not hehe~

and i still understand what you mean - about how they have it but don't know what to get - i guess they have a tank and that's all - lol .. i guess i'm just glad they're seeking help instead of letting the leos die off~ but i see what you mean

[aimEe]
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0.1.0 Albino Leopard Gecko (Marlene)
0.0.2 Fire Bellied Toads (Norman & Forman)
1.0.0 Fighting Fish (Blue Balls)
1.0.0 Black Lab / Pit Bull (Mikey)
aimee.i8.com

>>oh no, you didn't come off as rude or mean at all i've seen you around, so i know you're not hehe~
>>
>>and i still understand what you mean - about how they have it but don't know what to get - i guess they have a tank and that's all - lol .. i guess i'm just glad they're seeking help instead of letting the leos die off~ but i see what you mean
>>
>>[aimEe]
>>-----

Thankyou. I always bottle things up so when i finally do express my frustration it usually comes out snappy and i don't mean it too.

I agree with you and am also glad that people do take the time to ask questions.

Red
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

For the unique personalities, but also for the occasional weirdos and controversy that makes Kingsnake so unique. I certainly do get a lot of entertainment here, laughing at people's jokes and awwing over cute gecko pictures.
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chickabowwow

3.2.2 leopard geckos (Rosie, Locke, Lisa, Caesar, Tommy)
and 1 more egg a' cookin'

>>For the unique personalities, but also for the occasional weirdos and controversy that makes Kingsnake so unique. I certainly do get a lot of entertainment here, laughing at people's jokes and awwing over cute gecko pictures.
>>-----
>>chickabowwow

Good point. Its definetely never borning thats for sure.

Red
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

On a lot of point here I agree. I also agree with what Fritz says about the vets. Yes, if you suspect your leo is very ill, the first place you should go is to a vet. The same way if your child was sick, you wouldn't just go online to ask someone why he's coughing up blood. I myself am quite new to leos. Prior to purchasing the pet I bought 2 books, as well as read up on a lot of online care sheet. However, no book or caresheet can cover every aspect of leo care and we all understand this. What I strongly believe these forums are for, are to help others with the day to day care of geckos. Care that is not carved in stone, or inscribed in any book. All creatures, human or otherwise are different and sometimes you can only draw assistance from someone else who has been in a similar situation. While I try to answer any question on here within my power, I can empathize with Reds frustration. After all, we are all here united in this forum for one reason. Our love and admiration of the leopard gecko.

And as a side note.. Upon joining this forum I was glad to see, that despite the presence of seasoned breeders here, that none of them make overly condescending posts to what many might consider "newbs". Wow, I'm still typing.. ... .... end

You said that so elequently. Very well done. I agree that theres just some things books don't cover (like why a gecko would re arrange a tank on a constant basis) but theres some things i know they do cover, as well as most caresheets and its that lack of knowledge i get angry over. I've posted many questions, not all of which were probably seen as smart, so i don't condemn anyone for asking.
I think theres still a general belief that these animals (like all herps and other small pets) that they require little to no knowledge to care for them. In fact every animal has a specific niche in nature and its quite complicated. I get the impression that people are going out and buying on impulse resulting in people not understanding why their new pet is dying.

I'm by no means perfect or know all the answers but i do expect people to think before they act. Perhaps thats to much to ask, i don't know but i hate seeing an animal suffer because of it.

Red
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

This forum is still a very usefull tool, otherwise I wouldn't bother reading it, let alone posting all the time.

I didn't mean to offend anyone, sorry if I did, but all I was getting at is that I've seen so many people post a pic of a "dead" leo asking what to do.
If it was a dog or a cat in that position I'm sure the vet would have seen it long ago. As great as the forum is, we aren't vets (not that I know of) and we can't examine the leo.
When it comes to serious illness, please leave it up to the pros.
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The following sentence is true.
The above sentence is false.

4.4 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Marbled Gecko
1.1 Red Eared Sliders
0.2 Siamese Mice

I didnt' mean to indicate anything other than what you stated. You did say it much better than i, if its sick, see a vet. If i, in any way made you feel that your posts were offensive i'm sorry. I didn't want to start a fight on here.

Red
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

.
-----

The following sentence is true.
The above sentence is false.

4.4 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Marbled Gecko
1.1 Red Eared Sliders
0.2 Siamese Mice

I wonder how many newbies will read this post and hold their tongues instead of asking questions. I also wonder if that will result in more or less death, sickness and poor accomodations for leopards. Just a thought, Dave
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2.1 bay of la rosy boas
0.0.8 kenyan sand boas
3.2 ball pythons
1.0 central american boa
1.9 leopard geckos
1.0 convict cali king
1.0 banana cali king
1.3 albino cali king
1.0 greyband king

More new owners may refer to a vet with more important health issues.
There are some things you can't do over the internet that one vet visit would take care of, fecals etc.
this is still a great place to share experiences/debate/ask questions.
I seriously doubt this forum will go anywhere, this post will be buried in 2 days anyway.
-----

The following sentence is true.
The above sentence is false.

4.4 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Marbled Gecko
1.1 Red Eared Sliders
0.2 Siamese Mice

Anyone NOT willing or prepared to take care of a pet to the full extent, be it a gecko, dog, cat or fish, SHOULD NOT HAVE IT PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!

Regardless of my opinion or post, animals of all types will continue to DIE because their owners didn't bother to get the knowledge to care for them properly and then can't or won't spend the money to take them to a vet as a result of poor care.

Every time an animal dies for the above mentioned reason those animal rights groups attempting to have a complete ban get one step closer. It only takes a few to mess it up for everyone!

Just a thought,
Red
On a side note, i won't be online for a while, theres been a *near death* in the family, its only a matter of time now and i'm going to be at the hospital for the remainder of that time. I will not respond to any post.
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

I agree with everything you said in your post. But I question whether it is possible that alienating people and raising doubt to whether they will attacked over asking questions you dont like to answer, will in fact do more harm than good for "the cause". Again, I agree with the package, just have reservations about the delivery. Dave
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2.1 bay of la rosy boas
0.0.8 kenyan sand boas
3.2 ball pythons
1.0 central american boa
1.9 leopard geckos
1.0 convict cali king
1.0 banana cali king
1.3 albino cali king
1.0 greyband king

np
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2.1 bay of la rosy boas
0.0.8 kenyan sand boas
3.2 ball pythons
1.0 central american boa
1.9 leopard geckos
1.0 convict cali king
1.0 banana cali king
1.3 albino cali king
1.0 greyband king

Red,
I agree with you completly about knowing what your getting into before buying. When I bought my first pair of leos 12 years ago, I drove the breeders mad with questions. I disagree with a couple things you said just a little. An undertank heater is not neccessarily a must. There is always more than one way to keep any herp happy. You can use a red or blue bulb in a reflector as a heat source no problem. You just have to make sure the temps are right. Also, there is always the risk of impaction with sand, but it is very rare and usually a result of bad husbandry. Now I know many would say if there is even the slightest risk then you shouldn't use it. I don't think it is up to forum members to make that decision for a keeper or newbie, it is there choice. As people offering advice here, I think all we should be doing is making someone aware that there is a risk, not berrating them for the thought of it. I have kept my colony on sand for many years without ever getting an impaction. I don't use sand now, because my colony is much larger. I know KelliH used to also.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me