Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Sorry for the long break been real busy and the results just came back yesterday.
It said that there was no sign of Adeno virus and they checked specifically. There were no abnormalities in any of the organs or intestines, no sign of pneumonia, no abnormalities in the bones, or any of the tissue period, and all fecals were clean of parasites. We are getting a second look by another pathologist Monday to see if maybe the pathologist who handeled the first wasn't familiar enough with reptiles.
This makes absolutely NO SENSE. My temps were right, they were fed crickets 3 times a day with 1 dusting in the morning of calcium with D3 suppliment and dusted once a week with vitamin supp. They had fresh greens daily (which they didn't really eat much of just picked at)with repcal pellets added into the mix. They had proper uvb lighting and could get within 4 or 5 inches of the 8.0 bulb. They all ate good and grew well untill 2 or 3 days before they would stop eating and then die. They didn't start showing any symptoms untill they were about 3 weeks old then many different things surfaced. Some started to act like they were dizzy wobbling side to side when they would walk, or falling when they would climb, one developed an infection at the vent and it cleared up with batrol but 2 days after he was off the medicine he died. several started to roll on there backs and act as if they were having seizures for a few seconds then get up and go on like nothing happened. And again I know that these symptoms are supposed to surface in the first ten days and none showed up untill at least 3 weeeks of age.
I'm stumped, if it's not adeno why would all of these symptoms that are the same show up and 12 of 14 die from the same type symptoms? Is there another virus that acts like adeno but doesn't destroy intestines and liver? If not why would the necropsy show NOTHING. No parasites, no intestinal or organ damage, nothing wrong with the bones just a dead lizard. Is it possible that the adeno virus is the culprate and killed without a normal trace?
I'll keep you posted!!
Later,
Robert Wood

>>Sorry for the long break been real busy and the results just came back yesterday.
>> It said that there was no sign of Adeno virus and they checked specifically. There were no abnormalities in any of the organs or intestines, no sign of pneumonia, no abnormalities in the bones, or any of the tissue period, and all fecals were clean of parasites. We are getting a second look by another pathologist Monday to see if maybe the pathologist who handeled the first wasn't familiar enough with reptiles.
>> This makes absolutely NO SENSE. My temps were right, they were fed crickets 3 times a day with 1 dusting in the morning of calcium with D3 suppliment and dusted once a week with vitamin supp. They had fresh greens daily (which they didn't really eat much of just picked at)with repcal pellets added into the mix. They had proper uvb lighting and could get within 4 or 5 inches of the 8.0 bulb. They all ate good and grew well untill 2 or 3 days before they would stop eating and then die. They didn't start showing any symptoms untill they were about 3 weeks old then many different things surfaced. Some started to act like they were dizzy wobbling side to side when they would walk, or falling when they would climb, one developed an infection at the vent and it cleared up with batrol but 2 days after he was off the medicine he died. several started to roll on there backs and act as if they were having seizures for a few seconds then get up and go on like nothing happened. And again I know that these symptoms are supposed to surface in the first ten days and none showed up untill at least 3 weeeks of age.
>> I'm stumped, if it's not adeno why would all of these symptoms that are the same show up and 12 of 14 die from the same type symptoms? Is there another virus that acts like adeno but doesn't destroy intestines and liver? If not why would the necropsy show NOTHING. No parasites, no intestinal or organ damage, nothing wrong with the bones just a dead lizard. Is it possible that the adeno virus is the culprate and killed without a normal trace?
>> I'll keep you posted!!
>>Later,
>>Robert Wood

deficiencies like the infection but cleared up by the time the necropsy was done?
-----
Rob

the dragon had it for months/years, babies do not have the time for it to advance that far. With young the most they will find is eosinophilic intranuclear bodies or basophilic inclusion bodies in the liver that suggest adenovirus and this can only be determined with an electron microscope, after throughly exploring and testing all areas of the liver. Liver biospy of live animals have proved negative many times when in fact they were positve later for the virus in necropsy, as the area tested was not affected.

This is one of the main reasons that test should be done at a University already known to be working with the virus and has positive slides, years ago when we had one with a host of problems, the necrospy was negative from NorthwestLabs it was first sent to, yet, the same slides were read almost a year later, and was detected at another University that had experience with it. Why I suggested contacting Dr Wentz who uses Louisianna State University. Unless one is use to dealing with the strain of virus that affects BD's they may be looking for other adenovirus (human adenovirus is a form of the commom cold) that look totally different.

Normal incubation period for adeno has been 10 to 20 days, but averages 2 weeks. Not all dragons will show symptoms after incubation, they may take months to surface, but they are carrying the virus still.

It has only been since 1996 that adeno was first identified in the United States in BD's and that was by Dr. Elliott Jacobson at the University of Florida in Gainesville, then in 1997 by Dr Dan Wentz, no doubt it existed prior, but was missed.

Yes, there are some virus that have like symptoms, the first that comes to mind is coronavirus or other enveloped typed viruses and we know that has entered the bearded dragon population in the United States. Again, I would only use a University that is already known to have experience in identifying these specific strains and have access to an electron microscope.