Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all. My 2 inch Cranwell "Ned" is happily eating medium crics now, but I would like to get him onto small goldfish so he starts plumping up. I didn't feed him for a few days, then dangled the fish in front of him. Nothing. Dropped it in front of him. Nothing. So I said "screw it" and dropped some crics in. He went right for them. Putting the goldfish in the water bowl didnt work either (Ned isn't much of a swimmer).

My conclusions are these (tell me what you think)

1. Ned is not big enough to eat goldfish (but shouldnt he at least make an effort?)

2. He is stubborn and only wants crics for the time being.

3. He wasn't hungry enough (but he ate the crics right after...)

4. I have been bugging him too much and he is maybe stressed (I admit, it might be possible)

5. His appetite is lessened because winter is coming.

Any suggestions?

PS I am fully aware of the dangers and risks of feeding a Pac (or anything else) goldfish. I work at a tropical fish store and thus get them for cheap and I ALWAYS check their quality and whatnot. Please dont post anti-fish remarks as I will simply keep trying anyway (cause I am a stubborn mule ).

Are you aware that they are very high in calcium and fat? The frogs can actually OD on calcium if fed too many goldfish and the fat buildup can kill a frog very prematurely. Personally, I think you have a good diet going. A fat frog is an unhealthy frog. The fact that you want to bulk the frog up shows you have not read up on lipid build up that many older frogs get. It causes blindness due to build up of fats around the cornea and can cause organ failure leading to premature death. I did feed my frogs fish when I was younger, and some died. My mistake. Havn't fed goldfish or mice in a long time to any of my frogs and they are MUCH healthier than they ever were. If you want to feed fish at all, DO NOT FEED FEEDER FISH and only do it on occasion. If you still insist on feeding goldfish, I hope you are prepared to shell out 100-150 dollars every month or so for dewormings as well. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

[sarcasm]

Wow thanks snakeguy for all the info! You sure answered all of my questions splendidly! You even paid attention to the postscript I left at the bottom!

[/sarcasm]

Anyone who actually read and comprehended my post care to help?
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They have the internet on computers now? - Homer S.

I knew what you were saying. I was hoping YOU understood the full weight of your IGNORANT decision. Have a nice day, and come see me in 10 years when you frog is dead and buried.
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Hey Andy, 10 years is a very good lifespan for a horned frog considering 7 is the usual.
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http://joshmilliken.tripod.com/

10 is supposed to be the minimum. Due to incorrect care, these frogs never live to their potential. Upwards of 20 is not uncommon and 15 sure isn't. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Anyone who actually read and comprehended my post care to help?

Heres a suggestion, listen to Andy.

M.N

I would feed nightcrawlers; that's how I raised this big fat thing in the pic below. Now the only problem is to avoid overfeeding
If you have to use goldfish, I would buy only healthy looking ones labeled as pets rather than feeders. The feeders are in hugely cramped tanks and there are a lot of nasty parasites riding in many of these fish. I know that a lot of pet stores treat their fish for parasites, but then again that medication could be transferred to the frog and this might not be good. I say, nightcrawlers for fat, beefy horned frogs!

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*~Ginevive~*

Nightcrawlers eh? Ok thanks ginevive, that is something I will try soon. How big was your guy when you started feeding him crawlers? Thanks!
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They have the internet on computers now? - Homer S.

She was about 2 inches long when she took her fist nightcrawler. It was love at first gulp.
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*~Ginevive~*

A pacman wouldn'd eat goldfish in the wild, for the reason you, yourself stated... Ned isn't much of a swimmer. Therefor no packman would be catching any fish for that matter so he probably doesn't see it as a food item. Just don't starve him simply to get him to eat something he may have no interest in.

Personally, if you want to try and plump him up a bit... try offering earthworms instead of the gold fish. He may take to those easier and they wouldn't be harmful to his overall health in the long run.

If you insist on the fish diet, I honestly can't tell you how to get him to eat something he doesn't want. However, you may want to take a break in the offering, just to keep any stress from becoming a health issue.

Good luck
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Heather
Dozer & ZeroCool

Actually they would have acess to fish at one point in the year, just before they estivate or brumate again and the water is receeding, when all of the fish are stuck in shallow puddles and are dying.
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http://joshmilliken.tripod.com/

Well thanks again guys who offered suggestions. I actually will be glad for my frog to live 10 years snakeguy, that would be a bonus for me .

Earthworms here we come!
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They have the internet on computers now? - Homer S.

AS for fish being available in the rainy season, that is not totally true. Most of their breeding pools are just hole swhere water fills up. Fish wouldn't be able to get into these unless the whole area is under water (or near a large permanent water source). And you may be happy with 8-10 years, but when their potential is 2 times that amount I find it sad. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Well, never having been to these regions I certainly can't add to whether fish are available to them or not. But, do you want to know what *I* find sad? Well, ready or not, here's what it is.

For someone to come onto these forums, making what they know is a wrong decision and telling us what not to say with "Please dont post anti-fish remarks as I will simply keep trying anyway," is ridiculous. We care about keeping animals and, while we love to help, we can't help when limits are put on what we're supposed to tell you. That's an extremely disrespectful start, so it's unreasonable to expect full respect and compliance with your wants out of people here. Gin and Heather have been more than humble and helpful with you, which is great, but I certainly don't blame Andy for his reaction!
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Got hips like Cinderella / Must be having a good shame / Talking sweet about nothing / Cookie I think you're Tame

I'm REALLY glad that even after saying that you would just keep trying... that you have changed your mind and opted for the "healthier" way. Earthworms will definitely give your froggy the "bulk" without subjecting him to possible health problems later such as blindness. Just keep in mind that earthworms can cause him to become "too" fat, so just remember "everything in moderation" and I'm sure your little bugger will be one happy, healthy froggie!

Keep us posted and let us know how he likes his wigglers!!!
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Heather
Dozer & ZeroCool

What do you guys think about feeding them small pinky mice?

Right now all my pacman eats is crickets. he is about 2 inches long. Im looking for something else to mix up his diet with.

Im going to try nightcrawlers since it was mentioned before. How do you suggest i introduce them to him? Just dangle them in front of him?

Also about calcium dusting, how often should i dust his food?

Mice are very high in fats that CAN NOT be digested properly as a frog. As a result of not being metabolized, they go straight into storage, building up unnecessary fat stores in the frog. Some of these spots can be places such as the eye, where lipid build up on the cornea will cause blindness. The lipids can also eventually lead to obesity and organ failure. Mice are not worth it, especially pinky mice. Pinky mice are actually just about the worst thing you could choose. 1) They do not have much calcium (which is an argument people give for feeding mice IE Mice give the frogs largers boosts of caclium) as their bones have not truly formed or hardened yet and 2) They are pretty much all fat.

As for feeding the nightcralers, I offer my frogs the worms by hand. Sometimes it is easier to put something like a lid in with them and place the worms on the lid in front of the frog. As the frog begins to get used to, start feeding with tongs. It will decrease the odds of impaction and lets you know exactly how much the frog is eating. As for varying the diet, this means feeding more than just nightcrawlers and crickets. Nightcrawlers and crickets make a good staple or at least can account for a larger portion, but you should feed just about any invert you can get commercially (or in your yard as long as you know pesticides aren't used) such as mealworms, wax worms, superworms, hissing cockroaches, ect.
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Ok good think my pacman is finiky. I tried to feed him goldfish and a pinky about 2 weeks ago. He wouldnt go near um causei had to hand feed them to him.

So majiorty i should feed him are crickets and nightcrawlers and then mix it up with some cockroaches and an occasional meal worm?? That would be good if thats what i fed him?

Thanks alot !

Well Andy, not to pick another fight or anything (as I seem to always do with you for one reason or another ), but if we are being over-cautious shouldn't we not feed our frogs mealworms as they have the possibility to cause intestinal blockage?
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They have the internet on computers now? - Homer S.

If fed in excess. They should only supplement the diet. I see this as less of a concern personally, as some of my frogs lived on mealworms for months before I knew better (Much longer ago than I care to remember). Technically, if fed in moderation, they just help to balance the diet. They are fairly high in phosporous and low in calcium and dusting does not work well with them, so that alone should mean they should be fed less often. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry