Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Wondering if there was any ideas about shipping brumating animals. Should they be disturbed once they have started?
Just curious.
Ed

Hi Ed,
It's not generally a good idea to interrupt then while in brumation. Brumating is a risky business all in itself. If they're in a full blown brumation, I would personally not take the chance. Remember, when they're down and out for a couple of months, their amunity levels are low thus, they can more easily surcome to stress, uri etc. It may throw their cycling stage off or even pospone it ... not a good idea IMHO. Especially if you're seriously thinking of breeding this animal(s).

I had a female moroccan which I picked up locally (Saurus) a few winters ago but she was kept cool during the drive home and I believe her cycling was for the most part uninterupted. She's produced a nice clutch in the following spring and has continued to do so in the last few years for me.

Hope this helps a bit,
John

John,

Nice to see you on the board! I sent Doug Dix an email asking a similar question but I have not heard from him. I have an adult male Egyptian that has been asleep for a month and has not eaten. I didn't really intend to induce a brumation it just sort of happened. He's in an open topped cage (something I'm going to change now that his scars are healed...long story, he's a rescue) and has probably just been affected by the winter because of it. I know brumating is a natural thing but it is scary to see him not eating for so long. I'm fairly sure he was brumated last spring (or brumated on his own) because when I received him he was showing full blown breeding behavior: headbobbing at the cat, trying to mate with my arm etc. My question is do you think I should raise his temperatures, especially at night and try and get him to come out of it if I don't intend on breeding him(unless Ed needs a stud next spring =)? Are there any special things I should do to make this go smoothly for him? He woke up for a day yesterday and I let him bask to get his immune system going and I gave him a bath (which he promptly fell asleep in)to hydrate him. He seems to be back sleeping again today. I checked his fat pads at the base of his tail and cheeks and they seemed good but his stomach was completely empty (which I've read is beneficial as well...just seems weird to see him that way after being such a pig before). Any information you could give me would be helpful.

Concerned,

Peter Ingoldsby
www.lizardsetc.com

Hello Peter and thanks,
In my earlier post I mentioned "full blown brumation". By this I meant an uninterrupted cool down from six to eight weeks and sometimes longer without much interruption to speak of. This should only be attempted with uros which are in the best of health and weight. I haven't put my uros into a full brumation for a few years now. Instead I choose a semi brumation which sounds like what your aegypticus is experiencing. I find the semi brumation to be much safer (if done correctly) and also allows the keepers to monitor their health, weight etc on a once or twice a week basis. Various breeders have their own 'methods of madness' when it comes to semi brumating. Some simply shorten/reduce their photo period/temps considerably and gradually. My method is somewhat unorthodox as I don't withhold food from them from day one. I just don't heat or light their cages except for every three to four days for two months duration which begins around Thanksgiving. Most of my uros are in a climate controlled room so that the dedicated furnace will light when the room temp reach the minimum thermostat setting. On the warm up days, I can see most come out to poop, some even snack on a little food and many of them come out for a nice short day of basking. If I should detect noticeable weight loss or stress, I simply pull that animal(s) and allow it to recoup in a warm cage. I can usually tell by their actions or lack of, whether one or even a small few are not going to cycle safely. It sounds like your uro is self brumating or semi brumating himself. I would let him do his thing but still offer him food on the days he shows/basks. Remember these creatures of habit most often tend to follow their survival/reproductive instincts ... even while captive and indoors.

To sum up, let me say this ... especially for the unexperienced keepers who are thinking of brumating.
Only consider brumating uros which are more than a year and a half old.
Only consider brumting uros that are in good weight and great health (ie, not constipated, no wounds etc).
Do not brumate uros that are or have recently (four to six weeks) been on meds or de wormers.
Do not try to brumate a uro which will not stay down/cool as it may cause illness stress or worse.

Sorry for the loooooong post,
John

John,

Thanks for the in depth reply. Boulder (the egyptian I was talking about) woke up today again so that is two days in a row. I figured everything was fine but it is just a bit nerve racking the first time you experience it. It was the same last year with my Bearded Dragons. Are you still actively breeding or selling Uro's or have you taken a break for a while?

Peter

Love the picture. Makes one wonder who's the Predator and who's the prey.
I had a poor uro turn out last season but I must admit it was a welcomed rest. Hope to be quite busy next season. Last year I produced some Petrosaurus Thallassinus (baja blue rock lizards) and some cute eastern collareds but most of my uro eggs either failed while incubating or my females became egg bound. Hope to have some various uro babies by next summer if all goes well.

John

Ed,

Wish I knew the answer to your question but instead I have another question for you: who are you shipping or are you getting a new Uro? Hope the gang is doing well,

Peter

Hey Peter and John-
I have to say I am constantly impressed with the helpful information, and the dedication to providing the best care for these animals. The internet when used correctly is truely a blessing. I am planning to purchase an adult female egyptian this week from a private party. She has not started any brumating characteristics, nor has her owner attempted to invoke brumating. The situation just made me curious.
My egyptians are all showing a decreased appetite, my hardwicki and moroccan have totally gone into brumation-had me scared at first.
The hardest thing to do is not disturb them. If they don't make an appearance in a few days I open the hides and check. All have great fat reserves and appear to be okay.
I have a young ornate who seems totally indifferent to the temperature change. She's up every morning looking for chow....
I have enclosed a picture of my daughter (on her 2nd birthday) helping me feed the "kittycats"-she loves to feed the uros and pet them.....

That's great Ed!

Hope she turns out to be what your looking for. How big is she? I love the picture...is that Oscar? Whoever it is they look so big compared to your little girl! Very cute. Keep me posted on how the brumation goes and send me a picture of your new girl if you get a chance...either through email or here on kingsnake. I know what you mean about the helpfulness of the knowledgeable people about this species; it is such a stark contrast to some of the backstabbing that goes on in the more popular, commercial species. Keep in touch,

Peter

Hey Peter-
That's actually Grover. Oscar is a little high strung and not as trustworthy around my daughter. Grover is really easy going. He is the one I was telling you about in the email.22"
I still haven't got a weight on him yet....
I talked to the owner of the female today and hopefully I can get her this Wednesday. The cage is set. I have taken that cage out of the brumation schedule until I am sure she is completely acclimated...
I'l post some pictures once she is at home. She has some really interesting yellow coloration and the small tail spines of a Microlepis but there is not real way to be sure what she really is yet.
Thanks-
Ed
P.S. if you look n the lower right hand side you can see lucy (believed to be male)checking out the scenario from his enclosure. I guess I should think of some new names.....

Ed,

It's strange, all your Uro's look more yellow than Boulder. He is more of a grey and white coloration. He also seems to have less of a neck than most of yours but both these traits could just be because of differing ages. Just thought I'd point that out considering your research into the different subspecies. All your guys look great!

Peter

.

I love that picture.
I've seen it a dozen time but it always makes me laugh.
How old is your cat?
I have three.
Mine seem to hunt everything-including two black widow spiders INSIDE my house. No need for exterminators here!

I do not think they would live in peace with the Uros.

BTW-the new Uro arrives by noon tomorrow.

Ed