Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I got a trio of these '02 Delaware corns from Brat Bruno.

Terry Parks

You are getting quite the collection going on arent ya!! LOL

Good to see some nice looking normals!!
Brian

and am finally posting pics more frequently. It probably looks like I'm buying snakes everday. LOL. I hope I get better with the camers so the pics come out better.

Terry Parks

>>You are getting quite the collection going on arent ya!! LOL
>>
>>Good to see some nice looking normals!!
>>Brian

Glad to see the Delawares are doing well for you. By the way, my name is BART, not BRAT.

Bart Bruno

I should have posted a retraction and/or correction. The Delawares are doing great. I love them and so do quite a few people that see them. I had several people who wanted to get some, but several people had told me you don't sell to the public anylonger. I read your post to John Meltzer about the egg successes you had this past year. The Alabama's finally came through. Congratulations. I hope all is well with you. I can't wait unti my Delawares start producing. Good luck.

Terry Parks

>>Glad to see the Delawares are doing well for you. By the way, my name is BART, not BRAT.
>>
>>Bart Bruno

Terry,

It's true, I don't sell to the public any longer. Too many newbies that don't appreciate good animals or honest people. I needed a year off. I do plan to breed Delaware Corns, Oregon Cals, Canadian Bulls, and hopefully Eastern and Western Fox this spring, as well as Pines. I still don't think I'm offering anything to the public, but I'll help you if I can.

Bart Bruno

Too many newbies that don't appreciate good animals or honest people.

Greetings Bart, long time since we last chatted. I found interest in your last comment you stated above. I myself, as you recall have been working with herps from the early 70's. NOAH, Chicago Herp Society and the likes where importance to many then was locality herps. Actually, we chatted on that very topic back in those days as well.

I would like to add my view on what you stated above. Actually being a newbie now days is difficult if you really do want good animals. I myself even though I have been keeping and breeding herps for 30 plus years find it very difficult to find good herps. MY problem though is I question everything. I like the history behind the various locales. I like to keep some herps/locales as pure as I can. Not easy when many refuse to give up info. of their lines. I typically do not buy from such people. These people though that communicate less about locale and quality in my opinion are not what many term as newbies but actually many of the breeders that have been doing this for a while.

With all that is going on we all need to question the validity of everything we want to work with. I will admit the economics involved these days have brought many in to just focus on the dollar. Basically tell you what you want to hear to make the sale or better yet not say anything at all. I would imagine many a newbie would find alot of criticism for even asking for information about one's stock especially if one is a so called big name. I myself have found that to be the case personally when I question locality and information about one's line. We have all heard the stories about newbies buying into herps from a big name herper just to find out years later that it just wasn't so to begin with.

I personally believe the demise of many pure locales (which many attribute to being the good herps we all refer to) is not due to the newbie but to the breeders that have been in it for a while that refuse to share info. on bloodlines and locality. These new buyers then breed what they have with anything they can find because thats all that is offered to them.

I feel the newbie will never have that feeling of enjoyment in seeing some of these pure forms in the wild. They do not know what good animals are because thats not what is normally offered to them. I most certainly do not blame them for that.

Of course all of this is of my opinion which is just one of many. If we truly want a legacy of herpers who really appreciate good herps then we have a service to adequately supply quality herps with accurate information so they know what they have. Give them garbage and thats what they'll produce garbage.

Rich Hebron

With all due respect, I do not recall ever corresponding with anyone by the name of Richard Hebron. This is not to say that I never have, but in correspondance with literally hundreds of folks over the years from all over the world, this name does not stand out.

I have elected not to respond to the content of this post. It would appear that this may be an attempt to engage me in a debate and possibly start a "mud slinging" cyber battle, which I will not engage in. Such behavior is common on another forum on which I no longer post, hopefully that does not become the norm here. Instead, I invite Mr. Hebron and others to contact me privately. I'd like to conclude by saying that I truly enjoy the Rat Snake forum. It is both informative and civil, and hopefully will remain as such.

Bart, yes we have chatted time and again in the 70's and 80's. I had sold off the pines I had from your snowball female years ago. I wish I had kept up with them though. I was once a customer of yours when I was a teenager. You use to place ads in the NOAH journal on a regular basis selling pituophis. Since that was all I kept then we spoke on several occasions in regards to them. It has been a while since we last chatted on the phone. Probably over 15 years ago. My wife hates the way my recall is but actually it is because I wrote and still write everything down with my herp acquistions. Years, locale, seller... This way I always have info. on something that was once mine and it is not forgotten. I do actually recall the last conversation we had as well. Pines and the lack of demand by the public in mantaining them in their collections.

Anyway back to the topic at hand. I guess you are referring to the unfortunate turn another forum took in regards to mudslinging that came out of an inquiry on Northern Pines. It did unfortunately turn into a mudfest because some people found it difficult that anyone would question locality. Actually, the questions were legite and friendly. None though that ever were answered by any of the mudslingers. Unfortunate to say the least.

It is apparent you have taken my above post personal but it was directed actually to the way things appear to be these days as a whole within our hobby. Of course it is only my opinion and you know what they say about that.

I welcome any other discussion on this topic either in private or openly to hear other's views in regards to the future of our hobby. I personally think it is something we should all be concerned about on many levels before we find ourselves and many of these herps in unfortunate irreversable situations.

I do agree though this forum is not the place to discuss such things so if anyone starts a new thread in another forum on this topic please let me know.

Richard Hebron