Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am investigating the use of the common "herp" drugs panacur and flagyl. I have no wc dry's, but I do have wc Heterodon and figured I would ask here as the core in here is very knowledeable (or at least we pretend to be)!
Also, the fact that wc hognose eat amphibians as many wild dry's do tells me that you guys should know.

I have heard that flagyl is for parasitic flagellates, but it can also be used as an appetite stimulant?

I have always been afraid to put these meds into my wc snakes. Yes, I do lose some wc's, maybe more than I could if I used meds. However, I am very afraid of overdosing the snakes.

Should I use both, one? I'm really in the dark with this aspect of the hobby? I saw flagyl in my friend's collection, and he had great results with wc snakes. Is either one better for the Heterodon/Drymarchon and getula?

Any pro's cons of panacur/flagyl/others would be appreciated!
There's a lot of confusion on the net in regards to this stuff.
thanks guys!

Panacur (Fenbendazole) is for intestinal worms (except tapeworms). It has a fairly wide margin of safety and is effective against roundworms, pinworms, Strongyloides, Large and Small Strongyles and seems to have some usefulness against certain protozoans, such as Giardia.

Flagyl (Metronidazole) is an effective drug for protozoan parasites, but is toxic to certain species, such as Drymarchon, certain rattlesnakes, and tri-colored kingsnakes. It works by stopping the production of DNA in the protozoans, thereby stopping reproduction and killing the existing ones. Because of this, I would not use it during the breeding season or in gravid females. It is also known to be nephrotoxic. Some people claim that it stimulates appetite, but I think what's really happening is that they are killing off the protozoan parasites that were causing a lack of appetite and just getting back to a normal appetite...at any rate, it's too dangerous of a drug to use like that.

on dry's or getula here?

Thanks or the info, oldherper!

The ideal situation is to have a fecal exam done and treat accordingly for specific parasites. I think it's safe to say that almost any WC Dry or Heterodon will be loaded with a variety of parasites due to types of prey they consume in the wild.
I've treated several kinds of snakes with Panacur (including a cribo and hognoses) and have never encountered a problem. I'm using a Panacur suspension. I think the paste is harder to accurately dose.
I've also used liquid Flagyl numerous times without a problem. With flagyl, I make sure that the snake is well hydrated and in good health before I give it. I usually use the lower end of the dose (25mg/kg) although I have used 50mg/kg on certain snakes.
I used Flagyl on a WC adult unicolor before I was aware of the toxicity problems with indigos. I only used 25mg/kg and I didn't have any problems. It's been over a year now and the snake is still thriving. I'm not recommending the use of Flagyl on Drys...I used it out of ignorance....just relating my experience. It's possible that lower doses are fairly safe on well hydrated, healthy Drys but it's also possible that I just got lucky.
Of course, neither drug is probably going to have much of an effect on cestodes (tapeworms, flukes) which are also supposed to be pretty common in Drys. The drug of choice for those would be Droncit. That's probably why it's a better idea to just get a fecal exam (flotation and a direct smear) by a qualified herp vet if that's an option.
Chris

Chris is absolutely correct. Panacur seems to be safe for Drymarchon. I've used it several times on WC Cribos with no issues.

Flagyl is known to be toxic to Drymarchon, but if you keep the dosage under 40mg/kg it seems to be safe. The "old-school" method of dosing Flagyl was to use fewer doses in the upper range of the formulary (100 mg/kg). That seemed to kill Indigos and certain other species while having no ill effects on others. I've used Flagyl at 40 mg/kg and simply used more treatments on WC Cribos and they showed no ill effects. The lower dose over a longer period of time was just as effective at eliminating the bugs. Luckily, Flagyl has a short half-life and Indigos have high metabolic rates, so there is no accumulation.

As Cris stated, if you find that you have cestodes in an Indigo (or any Dry), use Droncit, NOT NOT use Ivermectin. Ivermectin is an Indigo killer. Droncit is just as effective and much safer.

You definitely need to have a fecal exam done, though to find out exactly what you are shooting at. The average charge for that (around here anyway) is about $25.00. Cheap peace of mind. Or...you can do as I have done and set up your own lab at a cost of several thousand dollars and do your own fecals, smears, cultures, etc.