Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am thinking about using one of these two materials
for part of the background in my new vivarium. Other
than the fact that the Tree fern root comes from a
protected tree, what are the pros and cons of each?

Thanks for the help. -Bryan
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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

Although the pressed coco fiber panels are extremely expensive, they do not break down quickly, sustain epiphytes such as bromeliads, hold moisture, and although not as attractive as cork bark for decorative purposes, you can use them behind pieces of cork bark if you want a more attractive surface to begin with. The plants you attach to them won't rot off and will reproduce readily upon them, as will stray fern, mushroom and moss spores. The tree fern roots are more loose and I have found them to be less useful for attaching to glass. The coco fiber panels can be siliconed to the back of your vivarium, either on top of a cheaper and thinner coconut fiber matting, if you want to save costs by spacing them around for individual epiphytes, or directly onto the glass. I really like them. The fern root (osmunda??) is loose and tangly. It has it's uses in a pot of orchids or as part of a terrarium substrate, but it is not very good for a terrarium backing where you are placing epiphytes against a glass background. I have it in my imitator tank around some orchids, but not as a backing to hold epiphytes like bromeliads. The frogs burrow in it and have never been caught up into it as I feared they might. At this time, a year later, I'm seeing a couple of new shoots of one of the orchids coming up through it. The frogs have laid eggs behind it against the glass.

So the answer may be that it is not "either or" but both suit different purposes, depending upon what you are planning to do.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
3 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
4 D. leukomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus pending

I am planning to use a combination of CoCo mat, or tree fern root, Cork bark, and the Great-Stuff foam background technique to get the best features of each. I am planning to use the foam around the mat, which will make it difficult to replace, so I need to make sure that the matting will not rot for a long time. I plan to plant bromeliads and resurrection ferns in the mat material.
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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

I'd definitely go with the pressed cocoanut fiber panels for the epiphytic bromeliads, except for Tillandsias. However, I've never been able to get the resurrection ferns to grow upon them, nor have I been able to keep them going in a terrarium by pegging them to the panels in their own media or using osmunda. They last awhile, but then just gradually die off (as if they were dried out in spite of the humidity and misting), and refuse to "resurrect." There aren't many plants I can't figure out how to grow, but this has been one of them. So although it is "sour grapes," I decided the resurrection fern isn't all that pretty anyway. Maybe they actually need a less humid environment. I'm just not going to bother with trying them any more, because there are too many other ferny things that do work.

In any event, if you can afford them, the pressed cocoanut fiber panels will last as long or longer than any other naturual media you can get.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
3 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
4 D. leukomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus pending

WHo are you getting your fants from, if i may ask? I'm just interested because they are my personal favorite and i hope to get some someday.
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Nate
1.1 alanis tincs
0.0.2 imitators(looking for sens and horn line frogs)
0.0.2 Azureus
0.0.3 green pumilio(On waiting list that puts the waiting in waiting list )

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
Sir Winston Churchill

I have used fern panels with great success in my opinion. First of all, a 10" by 10" panel fits perfectly in the back of an 18 gal. tall tank, which is what I use for my thumbnails. As with anything, the panels come in varying quality, but most are very dense and would not permit a frog to 'enter' them. Periodically I have to stuff a little sphagnum on the sides if it isn't a perfect fit. I like it over cork as well. I've seen too many tanks with the caulk/cork background and don't like it. Also, the darkness of the tree fern makes the green of the plants and color of the frogs stand out.
I have orchids mounted on it too. While I have used it in growing orchids in a greenhouse for years, I don't have long term terrarium experience with it, only a year. Orchid growth has been good so far. My treefern frequently blossoms a group of young ferns as well. I'm sure spores remain in the grooves. In fact, I have a huge fern in my imitator tank which looks awesome! I've removed most other plants and the imitators eat, breed, and sleep in it.
While I have no experience with coco fiber, I would highly recommend you at least try the fern paneling!

well maybe I will try both.

slaytonp- where do you get your compressed coco panels?
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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

Yeah, I second that emotion...Tree Fern panels are the better solution for me too. I have used them for backgrounds and substrates. As a background, I do however worry about froggies getting behind them if they don't fit flush with the rear glass of your tank. I haven't had that problem yet though in 3 years of using them. When you buy them it's important to get them at a reptile show or somewhere else that you can examine before buying. It would be worth it because if you mail order, you're stuck with what they send you. That's how you end up getting the not-so-dense panels that give you trouble. Pick solid ones that have no space between the twigs. I love the fact that it sprouts little ferns from it and I got a nice one growing in one of my tanks now.
In my most recent tank (see Nov 11th entry on wildsky: http://www.wildsky.net/vivarium/evivariu.htm), I used treefern as a substrate on top of a false bottom. I just finished this tank and plan to house Leucs after I allow it a couple of months to establish itself. I too, love the contrast in color to the green and red plant leaves.

Nice Vivarium. I dont think I have any choice but to order them online. The only big show that I know of around here (frogfest) is over, and I dont remember anybody selling the tree fern panels there. I was thinking of ordering them from this site.
Tree fern panels

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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

Great link.

I found the link on these boards a few weeks ago. Thanks to whoever posted it!
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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

I've ordered from these guys a number of times. Great price and pretty quick shipping...
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Randy

>>Nice Vivarium. I dont think I have any choice but to order them online. The only big show that I know of around here (frogfest) is over, and I dont remember anybody selling the tree fern panels there. I was thinking of ordering them from this site.
>>Tree fern panels

I know that some people were at Frogfest selling tree fern pots, so maybe they might have had panels earlier in the day, since I got there very late. I have an 8" x 24" panel that's not big enough for my 29 gallon tank, so I'll be ordering some from the same site. On a side note, I think the Unique Animal Expo during February in Hilsboro has herps. Never been there, but I've heard reports from other boards. Not sure if that includes PDFs and vivarium supplies, though.

I ordered 5 large panels from them the other day. I hope they arrive friday. This will be my first time working with it, and I have a question....the ferns that sprout from it...are they already in the fiber or did you guys implant spores? It would be really cool to have some native plants sprout out of it.

Oh, I read earlier that someone was having trouble getting broms to root in tree fern...Harry Whitmore said that most broms should do fine, and a little sphagnum around the base should help.

Thanks
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Matt

The ferns sprout from the panels over time. Generally it takes at least a month. At first they don't look like ferns at all, more like the beginnings of moss. When young, they don;t handle drops in humidity at all. Even when older, only after an hour or so of lowered humidity, the ferns will begin to wilt.

Jon

I have bought them for years, through the site you mentioned and others. I mainly buy them for my orchids and use the good ones in tanks. I sold panels at Frogfest, brought about 40 of them and they all sold in about 90 minutes. I was very surprised. What surprises me more though is just how many people use cork. I just don't get it! When ordering the panels in the past I have asked for dense ones so I could use them in my tanks. The bad part is that I really believe panels are grabbed and sent with out much attention to particular requests. However I feel about 70% of the panels sent are in good shape. If I am a little concerned about density, I pay my panel flat and rub Supersoil all over it! The gaps fill in well. Any additional gaps on the sides I stuff with sphagnum.

I got to frogfest about 90 min after it started, so I guess I just missed your panels. Oh well. Thanks for the tips about the density.
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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

Do it...DO IT!!!! That price is awesome! It makes me think about doing one of mine over again just so I can buy some!!! And the planters are really cool. they'd be great for orchids...I've never had success with them in a tank but they may make the difference!
Personally, as long as tree fern is available, I'll probably not use anything else! I love the stuff! If you use it as a substrate, you can use panels, then break up pieces to fit into the gaps, then cover it all with java moss. Then as long as you keep the water under your false bottom close to it the tf fiber will stay damp and the java moss will thrive. I've had MUCH better success with java moss in this kind of set up than the tropical moss I buy anywhere else!!!In one of my tanks (unfortunately, the one I thinking about doing over)It's grown 3 inches thick from the tf panel background that's also a drip wall!!!