Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What do you think?> I have a 30 gal aquarium that I presently keep a male and female red eyed tree frog pair. I plan on cleaning and re-arranging because I plan on purchasing three bearded pygmey chams and would like it to be more suitable for them with lower climbing zones. What do you think about the idea since thee have the same requirements. Also, has anyone ever done this? What do you think? Thanks!
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http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dubaliscous/lst?.dir=/Pablo(Picasso panther chameleon)&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/
1.0 Picasso panther chameleon (Pablo)
0.2 Bearder Dragons (Mic Dundee and Red)
0.1 Leopard gecko (Leo)
2.2 Red-eyed tree frogs
1.0 African side-necked mud turtle (Wrinkles)
1.1 Fire bellied toads
Emperor Scorpion (not sexed)

While I am not against community tanks at all, there are some guidelines to be followed. The only minor problem I see with this setup is that red eyes are from Costa Rica (I think) and the pygmys are from Tanzania. The major problem I see is that frogs are also quite aggressive, they'll go after anything that moves. And the diurnal/nocturnal excuse holds no ground because they're going to be awake simutaneously throughout the day.

You might want to try some larger arrow frog species. They are from Brazil, though, but they are too big for the pygmys to eat and too small to really harm the chams. They are both diurnal. Try the bumblebee darts (Dendrobates leucomelas).

If I were to do a mixed tank with some pygmy chams, I would go with the largest pygmies I could find and some smaller species of Uroplatus (leaf tail geckos) or Phelsumas (day geckos). Both are from Madagascar, which is somewhat similar to Tanzania, or at least the habitat requirements are similar.

Make sure you keep each separate species in quarintine tanks to monitor their aggression and tolerance of conspecifics.

I would also like to state that mixing amphibians and reptiles and/or snakes is never a good idea, try to stick with just amphibians or just reptiles or just snakes (snakes tend to be more cannibalistic though) and you should run into less problems.

You will, however, most likely run into a few problems. If the health and/or well-being of any individual specimin must be compromised for a community tank, you MUST reconsider and make separate tanks for individual species.

You must also take into consideration that if a frog/gecko/lizard goes for a feeder that the chameleons tongue has already touched, it can rip out the chameleons tongue and the chameleon will die since medical treatment of pygmys is very difficult.

The single most important thing to remember is: COMMON SENSE. Just use logic and you should do fine.

Any specific questions just ask.

-Brock

Thanks for the response I appreciate it. I had always been one on keeping species to their own tanks and no mixing but saw my friends tanks and they just look fabulous. He has a 80 gal tall with breeding gold dust day geckos, monkey tree frogs, some kind of millipedede (yuck) and a pygmey leaf. Everything seems to be going ok in his tanks but I'd rather not risk it. Thanks for the input and I think I will just stick to seperate tanks.
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http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dubaliscous/lst?.dir=/Pablo(Picasso panther chameleon)&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/
1.0 Picasso panther chameleon (Pablo)
0.2 Bearder Dragons (Mic Dundee and Red)
0.1 Leopard gecko (Leo)
2.2 Red-eyed tree frogs
1.0 African side-necked mud turtle (Wrinkles)
1.1 Fire bellied toads
Emperor Scorpion (not sexed)

No, no, no. Maybe something else, but mixing chams with RETFs is a big no-no. In fact, I wouldn't use any frog just because of how sensitive they are when it comes to absorbing toxins from waste, but especially not RETFs.

RETFs are also reported to release toxic substances and shouldn't be mixed with anything that could be hurt by that. Most frogs seem sensitive to it, from what I hear, but I don't know about reptiles. Either way, RETFs are so sensitive and easily stressed that it's just a bad idea, not a convenient solution. They'll try to eat anything that they can fit into their mouth, and that might include little cham parts that I'm not sure how a cham would react to. They'll probably get little sleep during the day for what they need, too, and may not feed well at night. That doesn't sound like a good mix, honestly.
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Got hips like Cinderella / Must be having a good shame / Talking sweet about nothing / Cookie I think you're Tame

thanks for your reply, i think i will stick to seperate tanks
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http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dubaliscous/lst?.dir=/Pablo(Picasso panther chameleon)&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/
1.0 Picasso panther chameleon (Pablo)
0.2 Bearder Dragons (Mic Dundee and Red)
0.1 Leopard gecko (Leo)
2.2 Red-eyed tree frogs
1.0 African side-necked mud turtle (Wrinkles)
1.1 Fire bellied toads
Emperor Scorpion (not sexed)

after having, and losing, a trio of pygmies and knowing others who have had issues with them I would opt to keep the little chams by themselves. 30 gal hi is good for a trio. I have pics of my set up I can email you if you want. Drop me a line

lele
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & no name
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & no name

Even if their climatic needs were identical there is still a big problem with mixing one hemisphere's bacteria with another. Even common things like E. coli are completely different, and a species that has never been exposed to a different form can get quite sick or die. I don't like the idea that one life form in a tank is essentially defecating on the other (animals living in different vertical levels of the same cage). Also, the tiny food insects they are eating are passing more bacteria and gut fauna around. I know it seems like a neat idea to create a community a terrarium, but these little enclosed systems are often too small to support many critters together.