Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I think that those who attack, or plan to attack, abortion clinics should be executed, in public, immediately without a trial. I know, it's politically incorrect to speak out against these pathetic invertebrates BECAUSE THE CHURCH IS ANTI-ABORTION, but it's time to stop the killings! It's time the CHURCH takes responsibility for programming these fanatics to do disgraceful things on their behalve. The suicide hijackers on 9/11 performed disgraceful acts in the name of allah. I don't see the difference between the two types of fanatics. The root of the problems are allah and the church, but that's politically incorrect to say. Whoops!

Ed

Gee...I allways thought that truth and politics were strange bedfellows anyway.....Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Politically incorrect or not, there should be zero tolerance for those who kill as a result of religious beliefs. It's time that religion be put on trial, because that is the root of the problem. These fanatics are making the ultimate sacrifice for their particular god. An abortion clinic bomber has it in his head that he is preventing the killing of babies. His god tells him that abortion is the killing of babies. Isn't the problem obvious? allah teaches it's fanatics that Americans are "the great satan". Why wouldn't those fanatics want to kill us? Religion needs to be indicted. Hopefully political correctness will be fushed down the toilet to fix this particular problem.

Ed

Ed

n/p
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I know Frank.

Ed

While I agree with you that those fanatics should be dealt with severely, it is kind of ironic that our society considers murder to be the worst crime imaginable and yet we not only tolerate the killing of unborn babies, but we supply tax dollars to support it! I see a real problem with consistency in the law, where on the one hand, killing of innocents is the worst crime imaginable, and on the other hand, it is not only legal but it is funded by us all. Can you imagine any other "crime" where the age of the victim determines if it is legal or not. Imagaine that! You can't arrest me officer, I was stealing from someone in which it is legal due to their age!

There are far too many abortions being done as a form of birth control (about 95%). I remember a caller on the Dr.Dean Edell show who was asking how many abortions she could have before it would be a problem for her to have a baby. (she had 7 abortions already and was pregnant again!) I'd really like to see a law were you get one abortion with no consequences (everyone can make a mistake once). Your next abortion gets you sterilized (except for rape, fetal deformities) since you have demonstrated that you are irresponsible. I have gone back and forth on the abortion issue many times myself. Should govt. protect the most helpless among us or should it stay out of it? Right now I am leaning on the side of "stay out of it", but I could easily change my position again. Imagine the outrage if society wanted to kill severely retarded people (since it is so inconvenient to take care of them for the rest of their lives). Why is this is so distasteful, but killing a perfectly health baby (most aborthions are healty babies) is OK because it would be inconvenient for the parent/s for a few months (adoption) or years (if they keep it). Abortion is really about convenience the vast majority of the time. Is that a good reason to kill? Its probably not as good a reason as the anti-abortionists fanatics have, who are at least killing to try and save other lives, in their view. See, now you've got me thinking about taking other side again! Arghh!! (the other side being pro-life, not fanaticism)

Rodney

Sorry Rodney, I didn't mean to torture you with the issue of abortion. It's a messy and difficult debate, but, despite the sad consequences of abortion, I believe it is the lesser of the evils. I posted to vent my anger at the danger of something that is unfairly held above reproach 99 % of the time - RELIGION! It is the breeding ground for the lepers who blow up abortion clinics, yet with each incident, the root is overlooked, and therefore the problem is never addressed. Abortion is legal, so regardless of our personal views on abortion, the lepers need to be given extreme punishment.

Ed

I agree that it probably is the lesser of two evils. The only real problem I have is the consistency of the law issue. Like I said, I have changed my mind often on this issue. Because I have changed my mind so often, I can't see the govt. dictating what is done. This is the main reason that I am pro-choice and my choice is life in all cases except when the mothers life is in danger. (then it's really a question of the mother's right to life vs. the babies right to life, and not a question of convenience) The above post had nothing to do with religion (since I am an atheist) While it is true that you can't really dictate responsibility to people, you can give them consequences (like sterilization) to prevent from doing it again and again and again.

Here's a good hypothetical question. Why are the Antiabortion fanatics considered as having a "fundamentalist" point of view while those that are doing the killing of the babies not considered as also having a "fundamentalist" view? I think they both are "fundamentalist" views, but the doctors are never portrayed that way because they are doctors, and doctors are respected more in our society than many.

Here's a better hypothetical question. What if there weren't any hypothetical questions?-LOL

Rodney

On the abortion issue, I would love to see the heartless creeps who use multiple abortions as a means of birth control thrown in jail and fixed. On the other hand though, mistakes do happen, and the consequences of having an unwanted child can be disasterous for all parties involved. Whether legal or not, abortions will always take place. Making sure that they are performed under the most humane way possibly is about the only thing the government can really do. The issue is complicated enough, so it's annoying to see an organization based on the belief in a non-existent supreme being, cloud the argument with it's ancient absolute statement "thou shou not kill". Ironically, this statement is the green light for its fanatic followers.

Ed

IMO It is a better decision to stop a pregnancy before the point of no return for those individuals who cannot handle the responsibility of childrearing. Why should we be bringing more babies into the world to suffer neglect and hardship. Would you rather see these women lined up in front of the abortion clinic, or the welfare office?? Yes, AND sterilize them. As always, my views are radical, BUT also very practical. Its too easy to have kids and not be qualified enough to properly raise them. Perhaps they should have a liscensing sytem for reproduction. How many people do you know, or have seen that have no buisness having kids, but have 4 or 5? Its [bleep] ridiculus.

Rgrds,
Michelle

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edited for language.

Edited on November 15, 2003 at 23:59:51 by phwyvern.

I agree completely, the earlier the better. I've noticed that anyone I seem to know that is rich, responsible, and can afford them, doesn't have any kids! Those that can't afford them, pop them out like bunnies! Did you hear the story about the single mom that couldn't even afford to take care of one kid and she went to a fertility clinic? Someone with this type of selfish mentality has no business even being a parent! Purposly getting pregnant when she is the only parent around and doesn't even have a good job to be able to pay for it! She is now pregnant with 4 children (or she just had them). And guess who is going to have to pay to take care of them? All the responsible tax payers like myself who don't have kids because we know we can't afford them! I must admit, I really like Bush, but this is one thing I really didn't like him doing (the extra tax credit for families with children). They already pay less taxes because of their children and they get more benefits than anyone who is single or married without them. Why do all the non-children tax payers have to subsidize those that have children, when those that have them are the ones getting the benefits from those taxes? (like schooling). It'd be like going into a grocery store just to get a candy bar and being charged for the cart full of food that the person behind you has! And no one seems to be bothered by this because "You don't want to punish the children do you?" Well, I don't want to punish the children, but I don't want to punish the responsible people and reward the irresponsible ones either!

Rodney

I remember her. And you are right. Ran into a "new American" who was job hunting...Over coffee he stated his prime ambition was to win the lottery so he could afford "to have 8-9 kids"I wonder what his wife thinks..). He felt the USA did not have enough people (he likes crowds). The big family concept is prevelant amongst immigrants which is one reason why over 75% of Dade and over 50% of Broward are non American born (those figures being from the state census). The result is Engish is in danger here of being a minority language.
Personally I don't feel I have the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body (if she is of sound mind) and no one else should either. But there really has to be something done about birth control and the excess population or we will find our selves in a Soilent Green world.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I think that you are forgetting that the guys should be the ones castrated, it's not only the girls faults, and if there were more responsible males around this problem would be half solved instead of them running away or taking no part in the childs welfare.

I also don't beleive that if a woman gets intentionally pregnant she will get soo much more money that she can live a better life, and the fertility agency is the one to blame if they gave this girl fertility drugs without checking her back ground, or maybe they were not doing things the legal way, but in any case the problem is half male as well.

Ive been slammed many time for living in Europe, and being European, also called anti this and anti that because I might have a difference in oppinion from some of you, and the biggest thing was that I am supposedly a socialist, even though I never vote, and thats the problem with us and you guys are all good because you are free to do anything you please, and have a government that supports this lifestyle, I think its great but there is always a price to pay when there is such freedom, and please dont tell me that you now want to take away the freedom of women to have children, this makes me mad because SOME people on here have rammed the USA down our throats because you have a democracy and freedom, Ide really like to know what you stand for because either you want freedom or you want selective freedom, which in my book is not freedom at all, and could be the start of something that you really wouldn't like.

Im sorry and don't want to start a big row on here but Ide like to hear your points of view.

thanks

steve

If you read my post I made it pretty clear That I understand it is a guy problem too. Castration is a bit severe..sterilization (so the fun part of sex can still be indulged) is sainer. Of course I have known Lesbians that wanted total male castration (not hard to figure them out)

You are wrong about the girl in the fertility clinic. The problem is not half male. She was acting on her own volition. She was unattached not married by choice...in no relationship, so how could it be a half male problem?

I don't agree with anyone taking away a woman's right to choose. As a male I decided to not have children and made it clear to the women I married before taking the vows.

The thing that irks me is the lack these days...of personal responsibility. Take responsibility for your own body and your own actions and stop trying to blame men. By doing so you are admitting that you are no more than a slave to men's desires. Short of rape it is an equal responsibility.
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

take responsibility, yes, they guy who sleeps with the girl is just as responsible as the girl.

steve

But I don't think anyone is argueing that point. I get totaly pissd off when I see these guys that want lots of kids (to prove they are Studs) and then expect the woman to raise them personally and financialy.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

They did a good job sculpting sensible men! Awsome to hear of guys stepping up and taking responsibility! There needs to be more of you men around!

~Michelle

Allah teaches it's fanatics that Americans are "the great Satan".

Again you are WRONG!! Allah does not teach fanatics to hate America, FANATICs teach FANATICS to hate America, Using Allah.

I agree with you on the fact that religion has been nothing but a burden on mankind. All the wars/deaths etc. etc. brought on by religion. Then again it’s not the religion, but the corrupt leaders of religion abusing power.

"Again you are WRONG!! Allah does not teach fanatics to hate America, FANATICs teach FANATICS to hate America, Using Allah."

Word it however you want! Allah was the cause of the death of 3,000 Americans on 9/11. Give credit where credit is due! There are way too many terrorists vowing "death to America" in the name of allah. Don't tell me that religion isn't a scourge!

"I agree with you on the fact that religion has been nothing but a burden on mankind. All the wars/deaths etc. etc. brought on by religion. Then again it’s not the religion, but the corrupt leaders of religion abusing power."

Those "corrupt leaders" are merely following the teachings of their god. Don't blame them! The fanatics who bomb abortion clinics are merely following teachings of their god. And don't even try to tell me that god's teachings don't contain violence. "Fire and brimstone" is the fuel that guilts it's followers into believing. The belief in god is predicated on fear, would you agree that "burning in hell" is a sick, perverted, violent thought? You are right, religion is a burden on mankind. Whenever mankind puts its stock into something, without having facts and proof, the outcome is never good.

There is no such thing as "allah" so who's to say what the correct teachings of allah are? Those fanatics has every right to make whatever interpretation they wanted. Obviously there's comething there that tells them to kill Americans. You don't have a leg to stand on defending that anti-American garbage.

Ed

PS Are you going to say anything about the article you posted about the war? What satisfaction do you get posting someone else's thoughts, without saying what you think?

Fundamentalists - christian or otherwise, believe God's law supercedes mans law, as Justice Moore does. Abortion is clearly against Gods law. No rational fundamentalist would do anything other than kill abortion doctors and bomb abortion clinics. Those women are not innocent, they are murderers. The only way to stop the murder of innocents is to murder the murderers. Killing one could save dozens - what could be wrong about that?

(The above statements are meant to demonstrate a psuedo-logical argument for the purpose of debate and not actually my opinion) !

Joe

sounds like your upset.
oh well, i agree killing abortion dr's is a bit extreme, although it dont bother me to see a baby killer get a taste of his own medicine. Its wrong to kill any human, from conception onward.
on the other hand i do belive john muhammed , (the d.c. sniper) should fry like a chicken, extra crispy baby!!
you can rant about religion all day long, but it wont change the FACT, JESUS Christ is your saviour!
Its totally up to you to accept it and have eternal life in heaven, or deny it and spend eternity in hell.
Your choice, id like to see ya accept it, and realise, GOD came to earth, taking the form of man, JESUS, died on the cross, willingly, for your and mine sins, then rose on the 3rd day into heaven where he prepares a place for beleivers.And he will come again , and rapture up the saved, then set up his rule on earth eventually.
You shall see if you dont accept this, that you made a huge error.
All will bow before Christ on the white throne judgement.
Good luck on that rage thing ya got going, but i do agree with your main point, any one who kills an abortion dr, should have the book thrown at him.
Oh, by the way
Marrige = man woman (hello,thought id throw that in for free)
religion is bad, being a blood bought born again beleiver in Jesus Christ is the best thing you could do for yourself.

lol u are nuts!! Thump your bible some where else.