Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Yes, it is true. I have discovered a new way to make a snow ball python, with less yellow then the normal snows. The typical snow gets riddled with fugly yellows and pattern as it ages. A flaw from the axanthic, as stated in another thread. I found a little loophole, with minor yellows. Get really nice pied, barely any color, mainly white. Breed this to albinos until you weed out the brown and you will get a snow, but with minor yellows. It will have all white, red eyes, but maybe a few patches of yellow where the pied part shows up. It isn't as good as the lucy, but it'll be a better snow with less yellows.

Think it'd work? LOL, it's fun to ponder morphs over in our heads.
http://www.ball-pythons.net

Would it work? Of course, but would it be better than the snows? I don't think so. My reasons are, first off you never can tell if you are getting a high white pied or not. Also the yellow is not going to be faded at all, it is going to look just like an albino, much brighter than the yellow on a snow. I do think albino pieds will be awesome, but for completely differant reasons than the snow. I think the snow is an awesome morph, and I, for one, am still very excited about producing one. Now what about a triple homo snake, or a snow pied, now that would be nice. Just my thoughts.
Jason
-----

Hi everyone...

I think all of us like to sit back and dream about how "this" crossed with "this" will look! Then we get to see it eventually and it is either the same/better/worse than we expected. Lets take a look at what makes Albinos look like they do...

In "Amelanism" (Albinism) they specimen lacks black pigment. Black turns white and the goldish-brown color of a ball python turns yellow. Having said that... our industry as a whole regards a "pretty" normal Ball Python as having a nice bright color and fading in the "black" areas. It is this look that makes our "washed out yellow" albino. Technically... the darker the Normal the more contrast and white it would have if it were "Amelanistic." The key to "High-Contrast" Albinos is selectively breeding the stock from darker animals in which their pattern is BLACK... not dark brown but BLACK!

Ok... lets take a side step... look at Pieds... If it isn't white on a Pied its either gold/brown or black... check out this pic...

Now if that particular Pied was "Amelanistic" then, of course, the white would be WHITE... the gold/brown would be YELLOW and the black would be WHITE. Basically if we think about it in terms of how the pigmentation is affected you would be left with...

A Pied with massive amounts of yellow in its "normal" colored areas" with smaller dashes or abberancies of white, but probably not nearly the same quality of whitness that is in the Pied areas.

Opinions? "Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge, Say no more..."

Thanks for reading,
-----
Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

I think that if you crossed an albino to a pied you would get two types of white in the animal. The pied white and the white that the albino has. And perhaps blotches of yellow. Interesting?

Off to the rat room with Larry to do some cleaning

-----
RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

What are we talking about?

Thanks! I had been wondering about high contrast albinos. That makes sense. A high contrast albino needs to have no yellow where the black would have been (so that there will be nice clean white once the black is taken away by amelanisim). I suppose in a normal yellow under the black tends to brown it out so the good dark black is the sign that the yellow is staying put away from the black.

I had been wondering about the high contrast normals but I'm thinking they are more just a case of the black staying put (not dirtying up the yellow areas) and not necessarily an indication that the opposite is happening, the yellow staying out of the black areas.

You have actually seen this in practice right - the hets with the darkest black making the most high contrast albinos? Does lack of black in the yellow seem to correlate at all with lack of yellow in the black? I suppose there could be a single gene that tends to make the colors stay separate but probably more likely separate genes controlling how much the yellow and black bleed over each other.

Breed a homo Snow to a homo Pied.........make triple hets for Snow Pied..........

Each snake will be het for albino, axanthic and pied...........

All kinds of cool stuff from the future breedings.........albinos, axanthics...........pieds.........albino pieds..........axanthic pieds...........snow pieds!!

SWEET!!

WHOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAA Nelly! Triple Hets?!? I have faith in the great Ralph Davis' abilities but 1 in 64?!? Not something I want to be involved in bro.

If 1 in 16 is tough then what is 1 in 64?!? Not great fun that's what!

May the force be with you...
-----
Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

If you have the snakes (Ralph!) then why not.

You don't have to prove the 1 in 64 the first generation, but you will produce a nice variety along the way and the more things they are het for the fewer normals you will produce (each offspring from triple recessive hets only has a 42% chance of not being homozygous for at least one mutation).

Or you could breed the triple het girls back to a snow and pick out a pair of the 1 in 4 snow offspring that look het pied and get 1 in 4 snow pied the next generation.

take the patternless ball, bred it to albino, and axanthic.
then eventually, take your patternless albino and patternless axanthic and breed them,
then take you triple hets and
youd get (after several years of good breeding and stick-to-itivness)
pattenrless snows
patternless
snows
axanthic
albino
and a few norms

the patternless snow should be awsome. depending on how much yellow is in the albino patternless. Id definitely like to see that. a patternless axanthic would be the bomb!
Freekin awsome!!

Snows are great if that's all that is available!!! IMO, people want Snows because they are "white". But, with the Luecy's around why would you bother with Snows at all?? It can't get any whiter than the Luecy!! ERIC

It's nice to have choices for white snake fanciers (and it's looking like there will eventually be quite a few choices, multiple types of snows and multiple types of leucistic like balls).

It's also nice to have some with a little color or at least texture differences to show off pattern mutations in. With corn snakes people make striped and motley snows. At least with a snow ball you have several interesting choices of triple morph animals to work toward by adding a pattern mutation.

Don't get me wrong, a pure white leucistic, should they eventually become commonly available (and I certainly hope and believe they will), would probably be one of the most sought after snakes. I just really like the idea of working with high order multiple hets for the variety you should see in clutches.