Reptile & Amphibian Forums

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Nope we no longer do the Texas Reptile expo's due to the presence of Imported wild caughts, health concerns etc. We will be going to the Houston Herp Show this weekend.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Ditto. Mike's show has a better outlook concerning captive bred. I also don't like some of the people walking around with newly purchased hots in SA. It'd make me nervous to be walking around in the same room with someone who plans to feed his new Gaboon crickets....lol.

See y'all at the BCBE.... unless I'm skipping out to go to the High Caliber Show! I just shot a new .308 I've got to own!
KJ

I will be there. See y'all on Sunday!
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

I will be there as well on Sunday, most likely in the first hour! I will be wearing a Zildjian hat, so look for me to say hi bro!

Take care!
Billy
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Genesis 1:1

Jason from Envy Reptiles is stopping by my house on sunday. We may drop into the San An show, I will keep an eye out for you. Later Tom

Tom.....I will be at the Bayou Breeders Expo Sunday in Houston, not that other show in San Antonio. I forgot that the post was about the SAN AN show. DUH! on me!

later!
Billy
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Genesis 1:1

Ya know I see the people I buy from will all be in Houston so if we go anywhere it will be Houston. Jason is driving in for a job he's doing near me so I don't know if he will want to drive another 5 hours round trip but I will mention it to him again. Hopefully we'll go for it c ya Tom

John,
That was an amazing statement from you. i.e. "We no longer do the Texas Reptile Expo's, due to the presence of imported wild caughts, health concerns, etc"

EVERY show I have seen you vendor at, has had wild caught's, etc.

I think you owe Texas Reptiles Expo's and all other expo's an apology. Even Mike Howletts shows have wild caughts.

Randal Berry

Whether or not John knew about certain animals being WC at shows he was in, I can't comment on. But as for the expos,
...I think Texas Reptile Shows owes the public an apology for:

a) Charging $6 to get in a show full with many wild caught imports that possibly were sick and infested AND

b) Not respecting the wishes of longtime clients ( vendors) who brought up the many concerns about certain others who sold sick and infested wild caughts at their tables. Their concerns were valid and were all in vain. Alas...those people concerned with quality and healthy animals were " asked " not to come back.

Would you want your animals that were healthy and captive born to be put in a position to be given the chance to receive transmission of a plethora of " goodies " to be spread around?

Take care!
Billy
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Genesis 1:1

Randall,

Before we get into this discussion I would like to get a few things straight. Bonnie & James Arnold who run the Texas Reptile Expos's are both good folks. I have in the past attended and enjoyed the shows thay put on. Further I don't now nor have I in the past ever had any financial or management interest in any expo that has been put on period with the exception of my personal costs and/or subsequent sales. The only exception to that statement is the making of donations to raffles at the Texas expos, helping with advertisment at Franklin's first show and supporting the sponsering club thru the auction at the ETHS show.

Okay here we go:

If we were to quit associating with all CAPTIVE BRED ONLY shows where folks have "suspected" wild caught animals, we'd have to quit ALL reptile events. It is however prudent for us to presume honesty in the absence of proof that CAPTIVE BRED ONLY events are allowing wild caught reptiles. In most cases that presumtion is warranted. I have openingly stated before that if I know or strongly suspect I am vending in the same room with wild caught animals, I would report it to the promoter. I do look and so far the shows we are currently going to have responded postively. Not being mind readers, our standards for participation in reptile events dictates that CAPTIVE BRED ONLY means just that. If one of those events allows the opposite, it is our practice to report it and consequently not patronize that event again if nothing is done about it.

You as a long time herper know the inherent problems with wild caughts. But for those that are new to this hobby or that have never worked with wild caughts let me list & explain a few:

1. Wild caught reptiles particularly the ones that are imported from overseas have numerous husbandry concerns. Parasite loading etc.

2. Feeding can be a real problem due to the stress the animals go thru when transported, espicially when those animals are true imports.

3. Pathological problems are much more common in wild caught animals and can exhibit themselves in numerous ways.

4. New keepers are normally not competent to deal with these and other problems thereby causing them to have a negative experience and possibly losing that new keeper from the hobby.

5. Tranfers of the health problems associated with wild caught animals from them and to my captive bred animals is increased dramtically when at an expo where folks handle animals from numerous tables. Even though we use hand sanitizers it is by no means a positive preventative.

As far as an apology to anyone, I am sorry you feel that it is in any way warranted as the comment were not meant to harm anyone or negatively impact anyone. But my convictions on wild caughts being sold to the general public are in my opinion ethically correct.

I also will state that even with that said, I have in the past and probally will in the future buy wild caught animals for numerous reasons, But quarantine and husbadry needs for them as versus captive born animals are indeed much more intricate and important to anyone dealing with wild caughts. Even with my years of keeping reptiles I still have a huge mortality rate when dealing with the wild caught animals we have worked with.

One other thing that needs to be said is that even captive borns animals do have problems at times, but it has been my experience that they are not nearly as prevalent as with wild caughts. But in fairness if you disagree I can understand with the reasons for it.

Should you have any further questions on where I stand on this subject please do not hesitate to email or call at your convienience.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Like John, I too used to vend at Texas Reptile Expos. I have always liked James and Bonnie so my choice not to do sales that advertise imports/wild-caughts is purely a business decision. They are talented promoters and really know how to put on a sale.

Besides all the reasons stated by John Cherry (which are accurate), wild caught sales events inherently have very inexpensive, wild caught and imported animals. This promotes a "disposable pet" mentality that I want more folks to think about. Anyone that works at a zoo will tell you how many unwanted "disposable" reptiles/amphibians are donated/dumped to them annually. I don't know a single zoo employee in good conscience that tolerates this type of exploitation. With me being on the business end of this industry instead of the zoo end, the amateur keeping of herptiles is more understandable to me, but the older and hopefully wiser I get the more I realize we all have to work to help resolve this "wild-caught" problem. I'm still not opposed to the conservative, logical and legal harvesting of most species, but those usually end up selling so inexpensively they are easy to 'throw away' and replace at the next show.

Bottom line is that even if there are some wild caught/imported animals at the expos I now attend (we know it happens), there are far fewer than at the sales that openly allow them. The solutions to most problems are not achieved overnight. By not contributing to the sales of wild caught and imported animals, we'll be contributing to the conservation of wild herptile populations.