Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am awaiting the arival of my glidings and was just currious as to what people thought about putting a couple of imitators with them. It is an Oceanic 70L.

A blue gliding tree frog will happily eat an imitator alond with almost any other tropical lizards or frogs. The frog is only 1/2-3/4 of an inch long and is smaller than crickets that they frog will need to eat. Please use common sense before posting.
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2.2.3 Orange Leucs
1.0 ventrimactulatus Blue leg
0.0.4 Orange galact

Always looking for female vents and plants

Thanks for being nice about my question! I always appreciate the reply of a DICK IN THE WRONG HOLE!

says the gliding tree frog!!
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Quality Captives

THANKS FOR THE COMMENTARY!

It would be a very expensive meal. Sorry if I tried to introduce some humor, I didn't think I was that rude about it.

It is always better to keep species seperate anyways.
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Quality Captives

"dont mix species".

Why now a days most people get offensive when you tell them the evils of mixing? Even if you do it politly (in my case below).

It just makes me want to not reply then laugh when they post a couple weeks (days) later when some thing is dead/got eaten/killed/stressed/etc.

aj
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Here is my new image hosting site! I have made it Bigger, Stronger, Faster!
kungfu28181: My god. You are insane. -Mon Jun 30 21:41:05

My thoughts exactly.

The mixing ? has to be the most commonly asked one on the list. No matter how many times the ? is asked and answered, someone will ask it again.

What would be a good example? Maybe, would you house a penguin & a flamingo in the same cage?
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Quality Captives

People just don't get it. Bigger animals like to eat smaller ones. Its that easy.

Also if you read the 100 other posts on the topic almost no one hear will tell anyone to mix.
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Kyle
www.kylesphotos.com
Dart Links - still a work in progress
1.2.0 D. leucomelas
1.1.0 D. azureus
1.0.1 D. imitators

When i first wanted to get darts i thought i would just get a bunch of different darts and throw them together. It wasn't long after i started researching that i learned it just didn't work this way. My question is why is it so hard for peole to get the thought that darts are like clothes, you can just mix and match, out of their heads. Also i think aj had a good point that most people who are stubborn and think that they can mix usually end up with dead frogs.
Sorry for the rambling, but this is one of my pet peeves!
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Nate
1.1 alanis tincs
0.0.2 imitators(looking for sens and horn line frogs)
0.0.2 Azureus
0.0.3 green pumilio(On waiting list that puts the waiting in waiting list )

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
Sir Winston Churchill

I saw the humor, I was just rialed up from Greenstar

At shows this is one of the most common questions we receive from potential customers. In the past, we have given the 'It is not good to mix because...." speech, and many times people go ahead and do it anyways. Predictably, we get a call in the next month regarding a sick frog. Finally, we came up with a solution. Now if a customer asks, we still give them the speech, tell them it is something that is possible to do, but if they decide to do that the frogs are not guaranteed, period! Since we have changed our policy we have fewer problems.

We want beginners to succeed, so many people are opposed to mixing because they have personally experienced the consequences or had friends who have. There is nothing more discouraging than having your first frogs die. Even now, I get upset when we have one that dies.

Yes, many people do keep mixed tanks. Yes, some of them keep them long term but if you look at the tanks they are usually elaborate, large & have a good ecological system set up.

In closing, there will be another person who will ask the same question again, probably by the end of next week. Hopefully, prior to posting they will do a search of the forum and find what others have said.

Melissa
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Quality Captives

The problem may be that most of the newbies dont know how to use the forum. Therefore they dont know about looking up old posts. Im not knocking them because we all were new to the hobby as well as this forum at one time. Also I was one of those people when i was new (to the hobby) bought sever specie of tree frogs and had them in one great big tank. So from experience I can say its not a good idea. It may work , but trust me after a few years in the hobby you will wish you hadnt done it. Just thought i would add a few thoughts and i dont want to offend anyone.

Best , Damon

If some of you are soo tired of answering this type of question then don't. I didn't know there was a gun to your head saying respond to his post.
He replied with his quote which is what people do when being attacked.
He asked a reasonable question whether you agree or disagree.
The funny thing is i was reading a post further down and a guy has a tank with darts,anole,fish, and a newt. Hmmm, yet more seemed to say hey if it works than those who said it's not a good idea and don't recall seeing him attacked as if killed the proverbial cat..
So for those that frogger88 offended with his question, try not reading his post but if you just can't then use what ever force is needed to not reply and let those that aren't tired of answering handle it..

He is the one needing control, just look at his response to my post and we are responding to him, the way we should since this way he gets the picture that it was a very stupid idea and that other that read his thread get the picture and don't make similar post/mistakes. It is people like you that think it is better to ignore people than to come out right and tell them that if you lack a certian amount of common sense than this hooby is not for you, that many first time froggers end with stories about how they lost a prized (and expensive frog) to a novice mistake that could have been avioded. I hope I make my point clear. Also I would like to add Frogger I suggest you start off with something simple and only do things that are recommended by others
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2.2.3 Orange Leucs
1.0 ventrimactulatus Blue leg
0.0.4 Orange galact

Always looking for female vents and plants

How about the 10 darts that i own, the redeye, the whites tree, the marine toad, roccoco toad, forest jungle frog, the salamanders and the other reptiles and amphibians that i own all alive and kicking. Not to mention the chorus that i hear on a regular basis. It was just a simple question because i was unaware that the imitator was a thumbnail, and that they are an aboreal dart frog! So hows that for novice?!!!

Well you may have a picture of your self as an expert i have 6 frogs, not many less then you. I truly still consider myself a novice. i have been in the hobby for over 2 years. But if you are as experienced as you say you are, which i'm not claiming is a lie, why didn't you know that imitators were thumbnails. they are really the text book thumbnails. And if you want to ignore us you can, but i learned a lot of things the hard way and i wish ppl would have yelled at me. i hope i have helped a little. also my first post was not so much aimed at yoo but at some beginers in general. have a great day!
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Nate
1.1 alanis tincs
0.0.2 imitators(looking for sens and horn line frogs)
0.0.2 Azureus
0.0.3 green pumilio(On waiting list that puts the waiting in waiting list )

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
Sir Winston Churchill

I f you don't know basic info on frogs you are a novice. Also number of frogs has nothing to do with experience
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2.2.3 Orange Leucs
1.0 ventrimactulatus Blue leg
0.0.4 Orange galact

Always looking for female vents and plants

Hi,

The number of frogs has very little to do with your level of expertise in this hobby. I am still a novice and consider myself one, so are many (most?) on this forum. When people say that you are a "novice" it is not always bad and honestly imitator is the thumbnail frog that many people start with and apart from vents probably the most common thumbnail in the hobby. Also you have to understand that many people on this forum really want to preserve the lives of these wonderful creatures and will do what ever it takes to achive that goal.

Alexander Stubbs

6 lamasi
5 casts
6 golden amazonicus
3 auratus
2 red galacts
7 truncatus "blue"

seems like you got a nice grab bag of frogs their
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2.2.3 Orange Leucs
1.0 ventrimactulatus Blue leg
0.0.4 Orange galact

Always looking for female vents and plants

My point is his question was simple. He did not say one word saying it's ok, he asked if it was so he has nothing to do with others who post..
Now go to Nov. 12 and look at the person who goes by timsviv and tell ms how ignorant he is and for telling/showing new people that it's ok to house anoles, darts, amphibians, and fish in the same enclosure..
If you get the facts straight you would see the obvious..
I could care less how anyone set up their enclosures so this is not a knock on timsviv just an example of someone who seemed to escape your wrath..

The species in his viv are totally compatible well close, and no one can eat one another. Not true in froggers tank
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2.2.3 Orange Leucs
1.0 ventrimactulatus Blue leg
0.0.4 Orange galact

Always looking for female vents and plants

I guess you still didn't get what i was saying.
I didn't say it was bad i said it was a mixed tank and you kept implying that by frogger asking a simple to answer question he was dooming others to failure (by asking a question?).
The person i was using as an example has pics posted and openly says it works so i was asking how is that not leading novices to failure (please explain this if you can) but someone who was asking prior to doing is.
When you openly ridicule someone for something that haven't done yet why are you suprised at what they say in return?
He asked a question you turned him into public enemy and accused him of giving others bad info (by sking a question??) in return he told you what he thought of you.
He apoligized for something he shouldn't have said but didn't start. How about you?
Remember it's up to others to ask questions and research. I just hope they feel brave enough in light of what happens to people who ask questions you don't feel should be asked.
In closing, it's those who don't ask who do more harm than good to the keeping of reptiles and amphibians by having failed and spreading uninformed opinions..

Please read my first response to what Frogger says. I do not ridcule or attack him. I simply put "please use common sense before posting". This is over end of discussion
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2.2.3 Orange Leucs
1.0 ventrimactulatus Blue leg
0.0.4 Orange galact

Always looking for female vents and plants

After reading this entire thread, i have become disgusted with what took place in here. There are people that come to this forum, aware that they don't know everything about darts, and humbly attempt to ask questions about their uncertainties. I myself, who have researched and surfed the net for 6 years, still barely know all there is to know about these awesome animals. And I have come to this forum many a time to ask for advice from the "experts" or the more experienced ones. I realize that it must get frustrating when people ask the same questions over and over, but each question comes from a different individual, who has their own need and desire for their question to be answered. That is why we have this forum!!! And you people who mouth off to others that open themselves to ridicule, ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

Frogger, obviously by now you know that it is unwise to mix those two together, and that any form or fashion of mixing is not a grand idea. Thank you for posting your question. I realize that some people attempted humor in their replies, but it can still be hurtful, especially after the very first reply that you recieved. I know when i post a message, i check my mail 20 times within the next hour to see who responded and what was said. I can't imagine what it must have felt like for the first response, after you had waited for it, to be ugly and degrading.I thought we were all in this together. There's not many of us; we're an endangered species ourselves, and we're at war with eachother.

My advice to those who get angry at people who posts questions that you view as being moronic or idionamic to you, consider the fact that there is a reason that they are asking-- they don't know the answer! This isn't a rhetorical question forum! So, once you consider that, if you still can't be nice, then don't reply!!! No one made you click 'reply' and type ugly words except for yourself. And frogger, replying to those back in an ugly way probably wasn't the best way of handling it. I know i would have been insulted, too, but try to look past it.

thanks for your time,

Kasey Lawrence

"You know you are a senior when you play baseball with metal chairs as bases, an empty water bottle as a ball, and a seat cushion as a bat, due to being bored in study hall on a friday afternoon"

2.4.0.20.21 Hawaiian Auratus
0.0.2 Leucomelas

I am not saying I am an expert (only 4 years under my belt and that is nothing next to some of the guys that have been doing this for over 25), I am definately not, but what bugs me is that people may read this and see that post and think that is a good idea. Now obviously if they read this whole thread they would certianly not chose to mix those frogs. We may have been a little harsh, I doubt anyone seriously ment to offend anyone but when I have a personal attack againist me in the next post, in response to what I told him, I can became angered.
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2.2.3 Orange Leucs
1.0 ventrimactulatus Blue leg
0.0.4 Orange galact

Always looking for female vents and plants

I attempt am very into keeping plants with frogs only if they could occur together in the wild. I do agree that the gliding frog would most likley eat the poor imitator, but the more important thing is that you would not want to mix a wild caught animal with a captive bred one. When I was working with salamanders all it took was one parisitised or desised animal to kill many, I lost four pairs of neotonic northwestern salamanders because I added one that had not been raised from eggs to the environment. I see nothing wrong with mixing species that are about the same size that could occur in their natural habitat together. I would see no problem mixing lamasi with fantasticus or other frogs that can be found in the bitope, but I do belive that mixing frogs which could never see one another in the wild is wrong. We should attemp to duplicate the frog's natural habitat as closely as possible, because I belive we owe it to them after taking them out of their habitat.

I do not understand why every time this issue is brought up on frognet or kingsnake so many people overeact. I see nothing wrong with asking a simple question. I belive that six or seven months ago someone asked if it would be ok to mix imitator and reticulatus (could have been reticulatus and some other imitator group frog and could have been on frognet) As I recall the standard reply was "well, I do not really have any experience in this but I would not do it, and if you do, you could possibly doom our hobby and hybridazation could occur..." I think that this is the wrong way to respond. While I understand that the question asked by frogger88 has an clear answer I do not belive that species mixing should be ruled out completley. Many successful breeders in Europe (and some here) keep many species together, but people who have not really researched the topic have a tendency to jump in and shoot who ever the unlucky person is. At least they asked before trying it!

I do belive that a mix would be interesting with a few species of thumbnails that naturally live together. I think that some of the imitator subspecies should be kept with the frog they imitate, I belive that the behaviour would be fascinating. Another interesting mix may be a terrestrial frog such as reticulatus or castenoticus and an areboreal frog that lives with one of them in nature (amazonicus and quinquivittatus respectivly)

I am very sorry for the long post and if you are reading this, thank you for sticking with me!

Alexander Stubbs

Alexander,
You pose some interesting ideas here. I'm not a big fan of mixing species just due to the fact that some are more aggressive eaters than others. However, I find the idea of mixing sympatric thumbnail species interesting. I almostwant to find out if they can hybridize or if it is just muillenbergian (spelling?)mimicry. Anyway, it is an interesting idea that could yield some previously unknown results. Just a thought...
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Justin
stk18119@loki.stockton.edu

D.auratus
D.leucomelas
D.tinctorius (lorenzo, yellowback, citro, pb, oyopock,etc.)
D.azureus
D.ventrimaculatus (yellow/gold)
D.pumilio (blue jeans, solid red)
P.aurotaenia (narrow bands/green)
P.bicolor
E.tricolor (Santa Isabel)
H. leucophyllata
P. hypochondrialis azurea
P. resinfictrix
etc.......

There's nothing much I have to add. I agree that this is a forum and that even though a question may seem elementary to some, it may be enlightening to others. It's all about learning and sharing information and if people become too scared to ask questions, how can that knowledge get shared?

In medicine, it's like that as well. Medical students may ask seemingly "dumb" questions but when the answers come out onto the table, the question is often times not as dumb as once thought and the answer is not often as clear cut as it seemed. And thus everyone one benefits.

With that, it'd be nice if people gave frogger a break. I would however like to add that your response to Greenstar was not the most gracious and could be construed by some as quite offensive. If you are made to feel dumb by others, don't let them know it by lashing out. It can sometimes be a hard thing to do.

Ken

Greenstar, i owe you an apology; i overeacted to your post. I obviously have an understanding now that the 2 should not be mixed, so my pair of glidings will live alone in their 70.

To everone else i am sorry for my outbursts and appreciate those who have been gracious enough to lead me in the right direction.

Greatly appreciated and accepted,

Thanks

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2.2.3 Orange Leucs
1.0 ventrimactulatus Blue leg
0.0.4 Orange galact

Always looking for female vents and plants

I wouldn't say anyone needs to apoligize, this is a debate that will rage for a long long time. The only thing that bothers me is when personal attacks are made. I have to say that i have said some rather untactful things on the forum before and i apalogize for that, but as long as this great place to get info is around i think it will never be peaceful. Get used to it!

Hopefully we can put this behind us, we all need to rest before next week when the same question is asked again. lol
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Nate
1.1 alanis tincs
0.0.2 imitators(looking for sens and horn line frogs)
0.0.2 Azureus
0.0.3 green pumilio(On waiting list that puts the waiting in waiting list )

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
Sir Winston Churchill

Granted I am not a genius like most of the people who post on this forum. I do understand (or at least I thought I did) that the reason for this forums existence is for information. It doesn't only happen in this forum, alot of others as well. The more experienced hobbyist are suppossed to be here to support those of us without so much knowledge. For those of you with all the wisdom (and lack of tact) be aware there are gonna be alot of "stupid questions" and of which I'm sure if you can remember (I know it was so long ago) that you started with no experience. There is no mandatory reply button on your throne that goes off everytime their is a post, so answer the ones you want to and shut up and keep your tactless rants to yourself if you can't be PROFESSIONAL.
I am sure there are many others who want to post, but due to some of you "high and mighty" are hesitant to post. I have been a veterinary technician for the past 12 years and get a handful of "stupid questions" thrown at me on a daily basis. Yet my first reaction is to grab them by the neck and choke them, I realize that displaying a professional and knowledgable image while TACTFULLY answering their stupid question that I have answered to other idiots a million time in my career goes alot further. So remember, we are not all citizens of the KINGDOM OF SUPERIOR DART FROG KEEPERS, we're waiting in line to get our visa's to come look around- don't throw us out, educate us!
1- wife
1- daughter
1- Eastern Indigo
1- Green Burmese (Don't worry I know not to house them together)
1- Do I look cool listing all my animals?
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Miami Hurricanes #1
NATIONAL CHAMPS 83,87,89,91,01

hurricane34, with this being your first post, and a message title like that, i can say i have little or no respect for you. The fighting has stopped. Every ones point has gotten accross but some one has to post any message (which im cool with, i could care less), but the incompetance of that message title has made me light headed.

I need to rest.
aj
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Here is my new image hosting site! I have made it Bigger, Stronger, Faster!
kungfu28181: My god. You are insane. -Mon Jun 30 21:41:05

I can just sit and shake my head...
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2.2.3 Orange Leucs
1.0 ventrimactulatus Blue leg
0.0.4 Orange galact

Always looking for female vents and plants

Why does the number of posts have anything to do with my opinion? This is what I mean, the number of posts or the number of frogs you have are irrevlevant to the help that is being seeked or the opinion offered. As far as the respect thing goes... none given, none loss. You were light headed before the post, so try every once and a while to get down here with the small people.
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Miami Hurricanes #1
NATIONAL CHAMPS 83,87,89,91,01

The number of frogs you have IS irrelevent. I too believe the number of posts are IN certain cases. Which i beleive this is one. Your very first post in this forum and you use a juvenile wording to make your post title. That my friend is why i have little respect for you. Not becuase of your years of experiance, how many frogs you might own, but becuase of your first post being childlike. I am down to earth with these people. It just seems most people do not like your opinion even if it is the truth and will tell you without sugar coating it. I dont see why people want us to lie and see its all fine about mixing this suckers, then they do it and disaster strikes.

I am not above any one here, yes most folks here DO have way more experiance then I. I dont think i have said a thing that would refere to myself as being above the small people. I just told the truth, and people dont like it.

aj
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Here is my new image hosting site! I have made it Bigger, Stronger, Faster!
kungfu28181: My god. You are insane. -Mon Jun 30 21:41:05

I understand about telling the truth, just like I did. There have been several questions I have been hesitant to ask but because of the fiery responses some people give I pass on it. I just believe that the respect begins whenever someone decides to open that post. It is a fundamental respect that should be given to everyone. As posted before, no one demands that you answer the post. If you think he person is an idiot, you deserve to think that but it should stop there. Many inexperienced people come here for help, don't berate them have patience and answer that same question a million times if you have to or not at all if you get that angry. Have the respect to answer politely, it will go further. We all start with no experience at some point, isn't it better that they ask instead of assuming? My point is the same as yours, I didn't candy coat my response or the title because it reflects the way that person was treated, why is that different?
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Miami Hurricanes #1
NATIONAL CHAMPS 83,87,89,91,01

There is a fine line between not sugar coating facts, and name calling. I believe your title crosses that line. That is my point.

Im not justifing what all went on here. The first messages were straight facts, not sugar coated. No one called names. Yes it may have been rude but its the truth, if he choose to ignore it, do you think he would be posting about how is imitator was eaten? Does any one remember MarkC? He was very blunt in what he said, never sugar coated it, but it was the truth and no one disagreed. When i first got into it i got my panties in a bunch just like in this message. And it turned out after about a month or so every thing he said was true.

You may not like the wording used, but its the truth. If you like it fine, if you dont, too bad.

thats all i have to say, thats my point, thats my $.02 and im out

aj
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Here is my new image hosting site! I have made it Bigger, Stronger, Faster!
kungfu28181: My god. You are insane. -Mon Jun 30 21:41:05

I am a new dart frog hobbyist. I absolutely fell in love with them.

Anyway, when I found this forum I had so many questions, some of which I posted. Later when I discovered the search function, I found that most of my questions had already been answered before. The search function on this board is hard to find, and even after that hard to use, as it give all results, not just those from this board. In addition, you have to search 2 different archives.

What we need is a FAQ page or a sticky post with the most commonly answered questions regarding mixing of frogs, fruit fly culture recipes, etc....these questions are on every beginner's mind and will be asked time and time again. I think that would help in the frustration most oldtimers feel at answering these questions over and over again. Also, it would help the board be less cluttered, with only new information and ideas being discussed.

Is there a moderator reading this who would like to post their thoughts on this?

Kevin H.

The mods dont care, I have asked for the same thing atleast 3 times. They get all upity if you say something bad about their sponsers, but they wont help us (not just people that know a bit, but the new people too) by having a sticky post. I event typed up an entire "report" for newbies with a lot of basic info. I think ill spell check it today and post it tonight. Its been over a month since i posted it...

aj
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Here is my new image hosting site! I have made it Bigger, Stronger, Faster!
kungfu28181: My god. You are insane. -Mon Jun 30 21:41:05