Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A while back I bought a MVB because they are advertised to have UVA UVB and heat. Well that one burned out after only a few weeks. Only yesterday I read in the latest Reptiles magazine that MVBs have to sit straight up and down, not at an angle (like mine was) or they will burn out fast.
Now I am very hesitant to buy another, one because I dont want it to burn out again (I will use them correctly this time) but I still worry, $45 is a lot if it burns out in 2 months. Also, mine did not create any heat to speak of so I ended up using another lamp also. I felt I was ripped off.
So Lately I admit to being very bad and not supplying UVB to my four dragons, I would buy those smaller bulbs that have UVA and they'd burn out in a month also.
WEll I am moving to a bigger place soon and am going to get them set up right. Now I guess the question is, should I try MVB's again or those ReptiSun 5.0 UVB bulbs in combo with heat. I need to heat/light three cages.
Sorry so long
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DogStar

"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." --Antoine de Saint Exupery

If you properly dust meals with calcium D3 you can keep dragons happy and healthy without UVB lights completely. Just make sure the cage is brightly lit with the basking light and regular florescent tube.

I personally use the repti-glo 8.0 instead of the 5.0 I find it is much better.

another one saying UVB isn't required....

www.reptilerooms.com/Sections+index-req-viewarticle-artid-55-page-1.html
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Axe
The Reptile Rooms

Give it up with that "experiment" of yours. It is poorly designed at best. There is no control group, the sample size is small, you don't take the many variables into consideration. It really proves just about nothing.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

Still waiting for those... oh, and your dragons too
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www.reptilerooms.com

Don't hold your breath, it might be some time. I told you when you asked me to put up or shut up, that I would do neither. I have nothing to prove to you. I'm just offering my experiences to others on this forum. We will always disagree on this subject,and that's fine. I respect your right to post what you want about it, try to respect mine also.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

anyone mention them, buying them or the quality of them, your website only has "Celebrating 11 years of quality leopard gecko breeding in 2003" and only photo's of geckos, Nice Tremper Albino BTW.

You think it is out of line for someone to ask about your stock, breeding and condition, if you even have them or have rasied ones, when you are advising others on how to care for them?

I have YET to see a single dragon from you, or even so much as pictures of your own.... It would give you a bit more credibility if you actually had them, and could present healthy subjects, with history that you have rasied them from babies with the NO UVB you advise others.

NOW, I will grant that geckos are lizards and they can thrive without UVB but, I have still yet to see a dragon raised from a baby with NO UVB that does not have growth issues or early signs of MBD or low blood levels of vitamin D3 or all 3.

I AM open to you showing us this is an error in our thinking and all the tests are flukes. Heaven knows I would love to not have a dozen UVB lights going daily! But I have yet to see it.
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www.reptilerooms.com

Just a thought from an outside 3rd party here.

You said, ""I respect your right to post what you want about it, try to respect mine also.""

BUT... the post that you made on this same exact subject, JUST prior to asking for someone to give you "respect" on the issue was this...........

""Give it up with that "experiment" of yours. It is poorly designed at best. There is no control group, the sample size is small, you don't take the many variables into consideration. It really proves just about nothing.""

I don't see where you gave 1 ounce of respect to that person, but now you are demanding it in your very next post....????

Ok, if you call your statement "respect", I would hate to see what you tell somebody when you don't think they know their a$$ from a hole in the ground. Lets all practice what we preach here....

By the way, I personally use and believe in UVB upplementation. I always used 5.0's, but 4 months ago switched to Powersuns 160's and T-Rex 160's on my setups. I saw a HUGE difference in my dragons, as soon as I soon as I switched to MVB's.

My thought on the issue is that we ALL obviously want the VERY best for everybody's animals. We see so many people coming to these forums asking for help on some of the MOST basic care and husbandry questions that there are. No offense to anyboby who ask questions but sometimes I really "wonder" about some people, and if they should have animals at all..........

Anyway, I'm sure it is "possible" to raise and breed dragons w/out UVB, but my thought is , "Damn... why not tell these people to get UVB's just incase they are not as thorough and "on top on things" husbandry/care wise, as you must be. It definitely is NOT going to hurt the dragons, as much as not getting enough calcium assimilation with incorrect amounts vits or minerals. Lets try and save as many dragons as we can from MBD... its simple... just add a darn UBV light....

Just my thoughs...

Dave

Good idea Dave in trying to preach to people what most of us will agree on, but there always have been and probably always will be the one, or the few that always want to show a different point of view or what they believe is a way of doing something that is "just as good, so why not do any better".

Plain and simple..........if providing uvb can be beneficial to the dragons why not use it? Its not that hard to accomplish, and most of those that are suggesting you dont need it, use some type of fluorescent lighting anyways for light intensity, so why not just advise people to go for the few dollar more uvb tube? I can see how in a huge breeding program it could be costly to use bulbs that run say $15 more a piece and only have an expected life of 6 months.....but for many of us hobbyists that try to give good care, I dont see why to not use them, or why to advocate not needing them.

Sorry I got off a little from what I started out with............but im with you.....and cheri and axe, even if there is that one, or the few that disagree.

Another person in the know about UVB lighting...lol.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

n/t

yeah, I read that the first time around, what's your point. She still gave good advice.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

I think suggesting a repti-glo 8.0 is wonderful advice.

The really funny thing about the (no-UVB) opinion you have is that it is not only refuted here, but in every other biological forum too.

The need for light for the development of Vitamin D-3 is necessary in Mammals (Humans included), Reptiles, and Birds, nearly every terrestrial creature on this earth, and although there have not been exclusive studies on Pogona Vitticeps, there have been studies done on Green Iguana's (research data is available on Melissa Kaplans site www.anapsid.org), turtles, Human Children showing calcium deficiency, Human Adults, Parrots, and rats. all of these have shown repeatedly that supplementing cholecalciferol only has a brief effect, and produces nowhere near the amount of D3 that light exposure does.

Pretty much all living creatures require full-spectrum sunlight to be healthy, we've noted psychological and other disorders not related to vitamin D3 that occur within both animals and humans when not exposed to good lighting, and we've seen full-spectrum bulbs reduce, and often times eradicate the problem.

Is supplementation a good idea, definitely, does it make a physically and psychologically healthy creature over time?? No, it does not.

You will not be able to find a doctor, Vet, or biologist who would say that supplementation of D3 is preferred to light exposure as part of a daily health regimen.

I'm curious as to (on average) how long your lizards live, and what their most common cause of death is.

"You will not be able to find a doctor, Vet, or biologist who would say that supplementation of D3 is
preferred to light exposure as part of a daily health regimen."

apparently you missed this post:
link

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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

where does that qoute say that supplementation is BETTER than uvb? if anything, it emphasizes the lack of conclusive evidence and the fact that youre not going to do any harm by providing uvb
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proud mama to:
1.0.0 ball python (mr snake),0.0.1 albino florida kingsnake (CK),1.1.0 leopard gecko (sebastian and vilma),0.1.0 colombian rainbow boa (luce),1.1.1 bearded dragon (kaipo, dulce, and kellen), 1.1.0 colombian redtailed boas (adam and eve)

no she didn't...

define "properly dust". What specific products? from what manufacturers? what quantities? how often?

Nobody's produced any of these answers yet.

How do you know what is too little, enough, or too much?
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Axe
The Reptile Rooms

a higher UVB rating than the 5.0?
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www.reptilerooms.com

I suppliment my dragon once every other day. I use Rep cal Calcium with D3. I keep the UVB bulb in the cage cause I already own it and it brings out the colours in my dragon. I also see no harm in continuing to provide the UVB light.

We use ZooMed powersuns (Mercury Vapour) exclusively with all our beardies. As well as this, they get regular exposure to natural unfiltered sunlight (some of the dragons go out in the sun daily, some just on the weekends).
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Axe
The Reptile Rooms

There have been arguments for both sides regarding the different types of UVB bulbs, truth is Mercury Vapors haven't been around long enough for extreme testing, but either seems to work quite well with a proper setup.

There are also those that will say that UVB lighting is completely unnecessary with proper supplementation, although this is quite likely to be true, it would be less than optimal as most lizards (or any other creature for that matter) do not absorb vitamin D3 very effectively(D3 is what the body makes when exposed to light, it is necessary in order to bind calcium), allowing them to manufacture their own through UVB exposure is a much more effective method, plus a lizard can self-regulate their D3 production with a light, helping to ensure proper levels all-around.