Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok so I just got back from the Philly NARBC show. It was a very cool show. I loved the dragons that were there. The dachiu's and amazing reptiles (i think it was them) had some drop dead gorgeous dragons. Sandfire was there, the translucent dragons were awesome and they had some impressive breeder dragons on display. I did not buy any dragons, I have more than enough to keep me busy next year. I did buy some snakes at the show. I bought 2.0 50% possible het for piebald bally pythons. I bought some supplies. No repcal though, i couldn't believe my eyes their prices were like 2X the price that I can get for the same stuff online. The dachius setup gave me some ideas for if I do any shows next year. Ok now onto the UVB debate. I refrain from entering these fights as it is too draining on me. I get very upset with the whole thing and it makes me not want to participate in the forum. I personally do not use UVB, I do not advocate that others should not use UVB. I do not use it as I feel, from my own experience and that of other big breeders, that a good diet and supplementation can provide a dragon with all the calcium that it needs. Does UVB have a use? Yes as a precaution and Newbies maybe should use UVB so they have some more room for error in their husbandry. I personally feel that if you want to set a newbie up with the best advice in the world there are two things that they must know to have a healthy happy dragon.

1) Proper temps are key and bright lights are very important, don't use just a house bulb (they are too dim)

2) What makes up a proper diet and supplementation schedule (including the brands they shoule use)

For me I use either GE or Phillips flood type halogen bulbs for heat. And I use a compact fluoro to light up the non basking end of the tank. I moved over to this for a few reasons. First I can adjust the amount of heat from a halogen (not possible with MVB), the light from a halogen is brighter than standard bulbs, the bulbs direct light only downward, and they last and last. I decided against using like reptisun bulbs because they would have to run right next to the heat bulb to be of any use. If I do this with my setup the non basking end would be dark. So I decided to put a compact fluoro on the cool end to make sure it is bright. The reason I need so much brightness and adjustibility is because in boston light dark schedule changes alot (from 16 light 8 dark to 10 light 14 dark) so i need to provide light arificially to keep my dragons happy and from brumating. And the temperature fluctuations is huge from season to season. In the summer my room can get up to 100F if the lights are left on, which is very bad for my snakes and lizards. With my current set up I can change the amount of heat that comes from the bulb. These are my reasons and feelings on UVB do not change what you currently do or do not do because of my beliefs. Do what you personally think is best for your dragons. As I will do for mine. To each there own, and keeping of lizards is not a black and white thing lots of grey areas and we are continously learning things and need to change our ways as it becomes neccesary. Ok I am done with this rant. Say as you may, but I will not be changing or recomending that other dragon keepers change their ways over to mine.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

You said:
"Does UVB have a use? Yes as a precaution and Newbies maybe should use UVB so they have some more room for error in their husbandry".

Exactly Grimdog!!!!! It is what you have chosen to do and don't pounce on the argument every chance you get.

Just perpetually telling people that they do not need UVB, (to prove some kind of point that I'm not sure of) does not allow for ANY mistakes. Only sick beardies.

How many times have we seen people come on this forum and ask what to feed their beardie? How often to suppliment, and even what to use. It isn't even newbies sometimes....

THAT is what I'm concerned about when people are told they don't need UVB. I could understand the issue if UVB was harming them, but it can only help.

If some people don't use UVB, fine. But why advocate to others NOT to? (not you)
I don't get it. Just to argue?
I can hardly believe it is out of the goodness of the heart to save someone $20.00. If there was any harm whatsoever in UVB, I could understand. On the other hand, there can be GREAT harm without it.
Can someone tell me the friggin point besides just the love of arguing?
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TheClassyLizard

My feelings on it are that when you're in charge of a living creature, no matter what it is, it's always best to overprovide than underprovide. This is just my personal feelings on it though. Whenever I have an animal I go above and beyond to make sure that they are properly cared for.

Take my dogs for instance. How many people give their dogs daily vitamins and brush their teeth? Probably not many...but I do. Is this absolutely necessary to their health? Probably not, but it sure doesn't hurt. As far as my BD goes, when he gets bigger he's going into a 75 gallon that I have. Overkill? Maybe so, but I feel that he should have as much space as I can possibly provide for him.

I've just seen way too many herps go uncared for, malnourished, and die from people not giving them the level of care and attention needed. So, is UVB absolutely necessary? I don't know, but I feel it best for me to err on the side of overproviding for my little guy. Just my two cents

I have lets see on the adopted front

a water dragon that a pet shop employee was going to feed to a tokay gecko because a friend he sold it to was an idiot and gave it no humidity i had to bring it to the vet so it could have its tail amputated and get needed antibiotics

an iguana the poor poor misunderstood creatures that they are won't even start on that. $3 for a pet that not very many people can care for and can be agressive.

a side neck turtle that was no longer wanted

a ball python that was being feed every 4 months or so and had no heat was kept in the back room and not cared for, she was 8 years old and no longer wanted

a bearded dragon that was mistreated somehow at petsmart she doesn't have the use of her legs she eats well and will always be mine someone bought her because he felt bad for her but he could no longer provide a home for her

2 females from cheri that you can read about on her site. one is still only 40 grams the other approaching 350.

I can not go into most pet shops as they disgust me. I have been in fights with employees called the cops almost said things to get arrested because the cop was a moron. he didn't know how long a ball python should live (uh 30 years) that one is 2 months old and obviously starved. I had to leave that pet shop as I would have been arrested if I had stayed. I do know the horrors of animals. I feel so bad for them. Trust me I do. All the stuff that I adopt I plan to keep myself. Besides maybe the runt dragon. I am sure someone would love her to the end of the world. But I can not part with her. She eats and acts normal I just don't think she will ever pass 100 grams.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

I know what you're saying. It's especially bad out here where I live. Herps are still very rare out here and the pet shops take advantage of that. I stopped in one this weekend to see if they had a zoomed powersun...they did but they wanted $75 for it! I told them that I could get it for $33 online and they just kinda looked at me like "back away slowly fellas...we have an informed herper on our hands" LOL

"Can someone tell me the friggin point besides just the love of arguing?"

I can, speaking for myself of course. I just want to express my experiences with the subject. I think it is important to the forum and others who read it to read different ways that people keep and breed dragons. I'm not trying to convince people to throw out there bulbs or not buy one, I'm just posting what works for me. I like to stess the importance of getting good supps. and using them. In my experience when a person has a dragon that is twitching and showing signs of mbd, it was do to poor supplementation. As it turns out that was the case with the original post that started the mess bellow. I have been helping the person through email. The supplement they were using was a liquid one. They were mixing it with the water in the spary bottle. Since d3 is fat soluble, it does not mix with water. Unless they shook the bottle everytime they sprayed the dragon, it was not getting d3. So i recommended getting a good powder supp. w/ d3 and dust the crix and feed asap. Was this good advice? what would you have advised? Do you think if he had gone out and purchased a 5.0 and continued with the same supplementing that the dragon would get better? I emailed the person because I care about the fate of their dragon, not to save him a few bucks. It's a shame the thread got ugly all the while the person's dragon is in dire straits.

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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

"what would you have advised?"

In that case, exactly the same as you. Only I would also make sure they had UVB so the dragon would have every advantage.
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TheClassyLizard

actually I did shake it. I dont think the problem was not getting enough supplements it was the stupid mealworms.

I agree... if your going to post YOUR opinions, etc regarding such highly debated things such as UVB, etc. I say keep other's names out of it, unless they tell you to mention them as a refrence.
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

Cricket FREE babies!