Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just a few quick questions. What's the usual UVB requirement for most monitors? I have a 3% UV fixture but was thinking about something like a powersun. Does anyone recommend any particular brands for 150 watt basking bulbs? I've been using ZooMed stuff for the past year, but for some reason they burn out really fast, at least once a month. Lastly, should the SDZ turkey diet be used only for larger monitors?

They obtain all D3 from their diet which is Whole animals such as mice, rats, roaches, peeps, etc. SDZ diet is something I tried with a few monitors over years with these results, runny smelly liquid stool (which is an obvious sign of a problem). Vit D3 is obtained through animal fat in mice and peeps. You can also add it to insects with miner-all (the best).

They obtain all D3 from their diet which is Whole animals such as mice, rats, roaches, peeps, etc.

- not completely true...in your opinion they obtain ALL D# through diet, but that is not true. Most reptiles and particularly monitors which eat whole food items appear able to maintain adequate D3 levels but it is not an indication that UV regulated D3 levels is not possible. Actually I have seen a baby gouldii with MBD which was corrected by the addition of UV light exposure and no change in diet. Thus it seems obvious that they CAN utilize both forms of D3 regulation. The ? is which is better (?) or more efficient? That is yet to be determined. Actually I know someone looking at doing a pilot study to evaluate blood level D3 and the length of time that D3 levels stay elevated for injected D3, dietary supplemented D3, and UV regulated D3.

SDZ diet is something I tried with a few monitors over years with these results, runny smelly liquid stool (which is an obvious sign of a problem). Vit D3 is obtained through animal fat in mice and peeps. You can also add it to insects with miner-all (the best).

- (the best)- not sure what that means because in reality UV regulated D3 has a built in safety mechanism. That is that you cannot over D# dose a herp this way (or so it seems). Based on studies done with Chameleons it has been shown that UV regulated D3 is regulated by the body, in that excessive amounts results in the body producing a different form of d3 (basically a storage form) that is excreted by the body, thus no over dosing such as can result from over supplementation by minerals.

It was not the UV that helped it, it was better care, better temps, better food, etc not UV. They do indeed get all D3 they need from their food and Id like to see proof of UV being produced by a monitor, thats one with no D3 in its diet then exposed to UV light. Thousands of happy healthy reproducing monitors cant be wrong. They get what they need from their food. Proven fact, not a theory or claim, that monitors dont need UV light added. Until the manufacturers make lights that produce UVB beyond 3-6 inches in the amount needed, those lights just cost alot and do nothing for most reptiles. I quoted a proven test that went over 15 months with study groups of chuckwallas one with UV light and a flood, and one with a cheap blacklight and a flood lamp. Both had Identical results as those kept outdoors, medically proven test.

Not a bad example because I know how the animals was cared for and absolutely nothing was changed with the gouldii expect the addition of UV light...Sorry but that is a FACT.

Fact is you have NO REAL PROOF other than ancedotal evidence...the closest thing to a fact is the jury is still out as neither side has been proven but if one is to go with what lab test have resulted in it is likely that both forms of D3 regulation are possible...not just one...Of course that is based off proven studies with other taxa and may or may not be the case for all varanids or some varanids.

As I said before it is very likely that both forms are possible and it is obvious that one can raise monitors without UV but that means nothing in terms of their ability to utilize UV in D3 regulation. I know of a controlled study being developed as we speak and hopefully it will give us the answer at least for one species.

What is the reference for the study you mention? If yout talking about the recent J. Herp Med study I think you missed the point...The end result was that Sylvannia 350BL (perhaps the best flourescent for UVB as it is fairly cheap and gives decent exposure for approx 12" /-) plus a heat lamp, resulted in approximately the same levels as the new westron (which gives heat & UVB), when comparred to natural populations - the end result was that both captive regime provided adequate and somewhat comparrable levels as the natural animals (altough they had more variation)...there was no conotrol group that did not receive supplemental UV exposure which is what would be required to make the assumptions you are speaking about...Ignore all this is you are not talking about the Aucone et al study.

And so do 90% of keepers. Why do many keepers not use UV and no supplementing except with insects and they have happy healthy monitors that reproduce, over and over and over? I dont claim to have reproductive sucess at all but my monitors dont use UV at all and are all large healthy very active animals that have no calcium problems, etc etc etc. Like I said the gouldi you mentioned had problems you obvously dont understand, because the UV would do nothing for it other than what it has proven to do, bring out their colors better. I also dont claim to have reproductive sucess because the only pair of one species I have does not get along at all, my female would kill my male albig. Varanids dont need UV.

You obviously have made up your mind with whatever you feel is evidence or fact.

After all when monitors live 20-30 years in captivity, all the while producing hordes of offspring and they started at 6-8 months old, without any UV light, thats one sign. Try it yourself, if you actually keep a monitor its hard to keep a flourescent light fixture within 3-6 inches to get 280-320nm of UV radiation, which is what is useful to D3 production in a reptile because the light would get damaged by a curious monitor. By the way I tried discussing it, and you cant give real evidence, you cant provide hard facts about actual animals, not figures from someone with a meter.

using the exact same enclosure and several test groups of animals, some with UV light and some without. It would take several years to see if there are any benefits and would also require a lot of animals since they are so different invididually. So a very tedious task indeed. Until someone does that, the rest of us will continue using regular light. Like Shvar said, they don't seem to need it. But it can't hurt really.

Scott

UV light helps the colors to be brighter in some cases. UV lighting can harm your monitors eyes also if overexposed. And thousands of monitors are kept without UV everyday and no problems from this lack of it. I just read the results from a test with chuckwallas, which people insisted needed expensive UV lights, proven wrong and it was interesting. One group used an expensive high output UV light, the other group used a flood lamp and a cheap blacklight. They both had identical blood testing, bone densities, calcium levels, vit D levels, etc etc, and were the same as those kept outdoors on another occaisions. The testing was done weekly for over 15 months.

Well actually...

Excessive UV can cause problems but the key word is excessive. And most eye issues are caused by UVC not by UVA or more importantly UVB.

It burns the tissues. After all UVB causes sunburn, tan.

High levels of UVB exposure and UVB in the upper range which extends into UVC are the major concern...the same as the rays produced by the lamps used intanning beds etc...The likelyhood of cause eye damage due to most commerically avialable UVB lights for herps is very minimmal, since for instance flourescents have to be within about 24" of the animal to get any exposure level at all.

Showed that all but one bulb needed to be within 3-6 inches to get any usable UVB (these were the top 5 bulbs). One actually reached out to 12-24-36" but its hard to find and I bet very expensive, it also has an eye damage warning that states never allow any animal or persons eyes within 6 inches of the light. It was a GE, but I dont remember the name. Those mercury vapor bulbs performed the same as all popular flourescent tubes in the test.

Actually, I'm not sure which bulbs you are talking about specifically but most of the commericial bulbs are pretty lame. But the Sylvannia 350BL is a pretty good flourescent UVB bulb which throws UV exposure about 10-16" so it is good for small aquaria. They are hard to find, we order them directly from sylvania and overall they are cheap around $7-10 each.

Most of the mercury vapor lamps are the ones that have resulted in some eye issues for some keepers...but test also indicate high UVC levels. The Westron Active UV lamp (formerly Dragon lamps...there are a few knock offs)manufactored by westron in Canada work pretty good. There was a recent paper in the neweste issue of the journal of herpetological medicine looking at Chcukwalla blood D3 levels which comparred wild animal blood values to animals raised under Sylvannia 350BL & those under westron lamps.

We are fortunate enough to have Dr. William Gerhman, a well known and respected D3 & UV researcher working with us. He and Dr. Fergussion at TCU have done most of the academic work on herps & UV. Not that I would recommned everyone go spend $300 on a meter but we use a handheld UVA & UVB meter to monitor our animals exposure to various lamps, and both the 350BL & westron work well. Although the westron is ridiculously expensive retail (something like $80).

Your absolutely right that test need to be done & I think they are being designed. The fact is they likely can regulate D3 either way. Which is better or more effecient is the issue...but proper UV exposure will not hurt the animals. Not to mention the possible side benefits, ie. it has been shown to affect expression of behaviors in animals (from primates, human & nonhuman to some herps).

the best source of UV light is... the sun. I finally had the balls to keep a monitor without UV light, and he grew up fine with no problems. But when i moved him to a semi-outdoor enclosure (my patio) he took on a beautifull bright yellow color where before it was closer to beige. what is interesting, and which helps confirm this, is that for a while he would always hang on the screen with his belly facing the sun, result - only his bely was bright yellow. now with more basking branches he lets the sun hit his back and it too is a nice color. i never saw this kind of color with the UV bulbs from pet stores.

just food for thought.
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- ianaré

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