Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Sorry, all of you Gaboon keepers!! I hab reply't to quick and didn't realise the facts you just exlain, sorry and dubble sorry!
I DO have experiance 35 years but in fact NOT with Gaboon vipers, of this species only Bitis nasicornis.
But my opinion on crossing snake species who not do so in the wild, stands along!

I bag you all pardon and I will never stir up the hornet's nest of the Gaboon keepers world egain....

Dick Visser.
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36 years experience with reptiles, breeding Trimeresurus, Atheris, Bothriechis,bitis.

Hey Dick,
I am with you on the cross breeding of species that do not and will not do it in the wild like kings and corns....... But I have no problem with natural intergrades like gaboons and rhinos...... Infact I keep them and will try breeding some 2nd generation gaboon rhino crosses as soon as they are mature...... The coloration is outstanding...... If you need to know any info on the three big bitis species just drop me an email and I will be glad to pass on anything that I know......
Gregg

>>Hey Dick,
>>I am with you on the cross breeding of species that do not and will not do it in the wild like kings and corns....... But I have no problem with natural intergrades like gaboons and rhinos...... Infact I keep them and will try breeding some 2nd generation gaboon rhino crosses as soon as they are mature...... The coloration is outstanding...... If you need to know any info on the three big bitis species just drop me an email and I will be glad to pass on anything that I know......
>>Gregg

Hello Gregg.

I'm glad you take the clumsy slip I mabe so kindly! I still can't understand why I react so temperamental becouse, after I'f bin call to order..(!)..., I realise I have read lots of thime that some Bitis species do cross in the wild...
When I will have the time and space to start nursering and (maybe) breeding Bitis (nasicornis)I contact you very gladly. Thanks anyway!

Greatings Dick Visser.
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36 years experience with reptiles, breeding Trimeresurus, Atheris, Bothriechis,bitis.

Do you know what you are speaking about when you say that corns and kings do not intergrade naturally? Are you on the up and up enough to say that florida kings do not intergrade in the wild with corns?

Here is a cross that occurs naturally of an entirely different animal.

Goulds x Flavirufus

Enjoy!

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Varanus Creations

Ok you give me one example of a corn and king cross that happend in the wild...... Um, the corn would be dinner before it had the chance to breed..... The pic you showed is a cross between two species of varanids...... And there is no evidance of them breeding in the wild so, what was your point again???? Yeah it can be done in captivity..... Big deal..... Kings and corns are not natural crosses...... Bottom line...... There are no know wild caught specimins..... So what makes your info any more correct than mine???? I could be wrong...... Until you or anyone proves it to me, I will continue my way of thinking.....
Gregg

okay wise ass,

two major researchers of varanids have noted wild crosses of gouldi and flavirufus, Retes and Bennet, and most likely more.

i am going to do research on the king and corn crosses now.

cheers, andrew
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Varanus Creations

Ok,I happen to know Daniel..... I will talk to him and find out..... I guess Retes went to Australia and studied varanids...... Besides I am not doubting it can happen between members of the varanid family, just like I know for sure it happens alot between members of the bitis family....... But kings and corns DONOT crossbreed in the wild.......

yes, actually kathy love referred to it in a kingsnake chat session as "natural intergrades"

i would think she would be an authority

andrew
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Varanus Creations

Oh and I dont think they are as different as you think..... Isnt the latin on the sand monitor still Varanus gouldi flavirufus???? Or is that out dated????

So Andrew,
You're saying that V. gouldii x V. flavirufus co-exist the wild, breed and crossbreed in the wild? Where is your proof? Because some people in usa and elsewhere did it in captivity does not make it so in the wild populations....where is your proof? Have you looked at museum specimens, locality data for species specific Varanus? No you have not. I have, and so has Gregg on this thread - back up your information with some facts or sources, ok?

Oh, by the way, how many glauerti did you get from your pair(?)? I recall you were advertizing hatchlings...get any? I recall you were requiring prepayment on them...how many eggs did you get? Got any dates, egg clutch sizes etc you can share? Let me knowif you do...I would like to include it into my files...

Regards,
mbayless

ask your buddy frank who has a lot more field time in oz than you do.

here is two clutches of glaeurti, i have gotten 4 so far this year. the smaller clutch was laid on march 14, the larger on april 7, from the same female.

i screwed up two clutches, hopefully the next will be better. we have added a new female to the group, hopefully she won't be too prejudice from her past owner's care and will be happy under my husbandry, its hard playing "God" to new adult monitors that we keep in boxes.

andrew

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Varanus Creations

As far as I know, V.gouldi and V. flavirufus live in two totaly different types of habitat...... I totaly forgot that V. flavirufus was given its own species status..... Who the hell can keep up these days.....LOL...... I guess I am just the type of person that needs proof....... Are there atleast any pics of this cross in the wild????? I would think something like that would be better documented...... I would also think that going through thousands of jared up varanids would show something like a "natural" cross....... What reptiles do in captivity and what they do in the wild are two totaly different things..... Oh congrats on the eggs..... Sorry to here about the two bad clutches...... Thats why I stick to Bitis....... All live babies.....LOL

mark, i do respect your charisma for varan knowledge, you know that.

however, that does not mean you know what i do or do not do. you do not know if i go to museums, if i go on field researches, you don't know much more than my name and that i have monitors.

we both have separate interests, mine are keeping and breeding monitors in boxes, yours is reading what other people have researched.

and yes, i still contend based on conversations with a real PRICK that gouldi, flavis and rubidus cross in the wild. because that real PRICK has spent more time there watching that sort of mundane crap than most aussie researchers.

the first question was about kingsnake and cornsnake crossing of which kathy love contends there are natural intergrades.

and finally, who the f cares anyhow?

lots of laughs

i am off to breed a girl that lives outside of my territory (roughly 5 miles)

andrew

Any cross breeder will say it is a natural cross...... Like I said, I do not care what anyone says....... Show me the proof..... I want to see a wild caught example of a KingXCorn....... It will never happen......

Oh and Mark has done lots of research on his own....... Might not be as much field experiance but I think the hundreds of hours in museums and the very extensive library that he owns, with books that would make most of you guys would cream over, to get, should count for something.......LOL.....