Reptile & Amphibian Forums

As most of you know, I am an employee at Petco. I was asked to help out at a brand new store (a "millenium store" in town, and asked to critique the reptiles. Well, among all the many.. well, not right things going on, the Leopard Geckos are on SAND. The leos at my store, and all the other stores in town, that are not new, are on "forest bedding: (like, bed-a-beast). Its actually the safest thing that "corporate" will let us put them on. Anyway, the reason I am telling you all this, is that I have been elected to write a letter, siting scientists and real experts, saying that sand is BAD for leos (and heat rocks will kill reptiles, and water dragons, firebelly toads and leopard frogs need more that 1/4 cup of water!!!!). Is there anyone that can help me?! We can't sit back and watch Petco kill their animals, and we can't sit back, watch and [bleep] about it either!!! PLEASE! I need help. Please email me or reply or SOMETHING!!Thanks in advance!!
~Angela
-----

2.2.1 Leopard Geckos (2)shct, (1) normal, (1) tang. rainwater albino, (1) tang
0.0.1 Giant Waxy Monkey tree Frog
2.1.0 Whites Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Huge Black Cat
0.1.0 Cocker Spaniel
0.1.0 Brittany
0.0.1 Brother

Exactly what kinda help do you need?
Some of your leopard gecko manuals are written by acual vets that tell you these things. They would be a good reference for your letter.

>>As most of you know, I am an employee at Petco. I was asked to help out at a brand new store (a "millenium store" in town, and asked to critique the reptiles. Well, among all the many.. well, not right things going on, the Leopard Geckos are on SAND. The leos at my store, and all the other stores in town, that are not new, are on "forest bedding: (like, bed-a-beast). Its actually the safest thing that "corporate" will let us put them on. Anyway, the reason I am telling you all this, is that I have been elected to write a letter, siting scientists and real experts, saying that sand is BAD for leos (and heat rocks will kill reptiles, and water dragons, firebelly toads and leopard frogs need more that 1/4 cup of water!!!!). Is there anyone that can help me?! We can't sit back and watch Petco kill their animals, and we can't sit back, watch and [bleep] about it either!!! PLEASE! I need help. Please email me or reply or SOMETHING!!Thanks in advance!!
>>~Angela
>>-----
>>
>>2.2.1 Leopard Geckos (2)shct, (1) normal, (1) tang. rainwater albino, (1) tang
>>0.0.1 Giant Waxy Monkey tree Frog
>>2.1.0 Whites Tree Frogs
>>1.0.0 Huge Black Cat
>>0.1.0 Cocker Spaniel
>>0.1.0 Brittany
>>0.0.1 Brother
>>

I started working for a millinium store in August. After I complained to the store manager about the state of their leopard geckos, I was asked to apply for a job and I'm the reptile specialist there now. I've argued the "sand causes impactions" issue with so many Petco people it's not even funny. I put some sand in a cup of water and let is sit for several days to show them that it doesn't dissolve. The thing that has worked for me is that I started telling them that the sand gets in their eyes and causes injuries and infections(which it does, especially with the hatchlings). I've also noted that the sand makes it very hard to maintain the humidity necessary for proper shedding. I've also told them that the dust from the sand can cause respiratory problems. Plus, it's harder to clean up and it screws up the tracks on the enclosure drawers. Now they let me use the green reptile carpet. So I pretty much had to find a bunch of different reasons to cite, and hide my real concern because they flat out don't want to hear it. The T-REX and Zoo Med guys are pretty confident in their products, and Gourmet Rodent keeps all of their gex on T-REX sand (it's just a spattering on the bottom of a breeding box though, and not the 1-inch layer that gets dumped in aquariums and habitats) so that doesn't help our situation much.

From my experience, trying to persuade the big wigs is a fruitless effort and causes more trouble than it's worth. My boss lets me do what I think needs to be done in our store. Our regional director trusts her so we don't have any problems. Good luck though! I hope you are able to make a difference because there are A LOT of things that Petco needs to change when it comes to their reptiles. Listening to thier employees instead of the vendors would be the best place to start.
-----
our doubts are traitors
and make us lose the good
we oft might find
by fearing to attempt

Ok first, take a deep breath. I work at Petco too (in a millenium store) and I can get away with alot. You just have to learn how to work around the system. First, You won't get them to take them off sand...what you need to do is use the finer sand, instead of calcisand. I have been using the vitasand in my enclosures. It's much finer. So far, I have not had a problem with the hatchlings that have been sent to me, unlike the problems there first were when they were on the calcisand. They also let me put humid hides in the enclosures.

(Now sand is not bad for geckos. I had geckos on playsand for years, never had a problem. The playsand is bad thing came about as a marketing ploy by the makers of calcisand. In addition, impaction by sand was almost unheard of in the reptile world until about 15 years ago or so. Wanna know what happened 15 years ago??? Calci-sand came out.)

Obviously, they have learned to trust your judement so you have to take things one step at a time. Education at the management level is the true key. I educated my managers about heat rocks, so there are no heat rocks in the enclosures anymore. They actually let me THROW THEM IN THE GARBAGE. Now, I do have rocks in the Iguanas because the Planogram calls for them, but the planogram never said they had to be plugged in. See what I mean about learning to get around the system. Last month, I heard my manager talking to someone who had a leopard with dried shed stuck to his toes. He was telling him about the importance of a humid hide, something that a month earlier he had known nothing about. My assistant manager and mananger trust my judgement so much that they backed me up when I told the district animal care dude "H*** No!" when he said I was to keep the ball pythons on WET bed a beast. I simply told him that wet substrate leads to scale rot and blister disease. And there is a difference between Humid and wet and if the vet he was talking to didn't agree then he needed to find a new vet. (After that the guy asked me my opinion on other stuff.....we won't go into that here)

I think the biggest reason that they back me up is because our vet the store uses LOVES me. I send a ton of animals over to him. I call repeatedly to find out how my animals are doing if they are staying at the vet. And since I have had long discussions with the vet on reptile care, he often sends animals back once they are medicated because he knows I will take care of them and not let them be sold until they are well. (yeh drives the boss nuts) So see if you can make friends with the vet the store uses.

Also talk with the person who does the ordering. I refuse to order anything that can't be cared for adequately in that system...ie: firebelly toads.

Now you are not going to change things over night. You have to have patience. Feel free to e-mail me and we can discuss ways around the system or e-mail me and I can give you the number to the store I work at and we can talk.

Steph

I use to stop by our local Petco often for Feedeers, this is before I started buying in bulk. I had a similar problem to yours. We have four local Petco's I visit and only one is satisfactory.ALL except this one house there Leo's on sand,but the problem i had was they never have a humid hide in any cages and here are tons of Leo's missing toes, tail tips, and having eye difformatey's. Well i just argued every time I came in which was about twice a week that they needed humid hides. I actually proved my point through their very own caresheet. I think if they need proof you should contact a well known Herpetologist that can prove this point for you. We are only worker bees in this big hive and sometimes you need the general's help.
-----
Chad
Visit The LeoGeoKingdom
Contact Me

When dealing with a large retailer you need to appeal to what they understand. That is sold price of animal (the end price they have sold the animal for) - cost of aquired goods (this is what they pay for the animal)- cost of maintness (cages, bedding, food, employee time for cleaning, and vet bills)- cost of losses (dead animals)= PROFIT. They realy understand profit or gross-margin. If you can show them that propper care can reduce their cost of losses (less dead animals) and cost of maintness (lower vet bills) and will increase the amount of animals sold, Then they should see that the profits will go up! Lets face it that is what they or any buisness is in buisness for! The talk about propper care for the animals is very important, but may fall on deaf ears. Most of the people running these big retailers have no or very little pet experince. To them the animals are just inventory. So speak to them in their terms and don't forget that dead animals are shrinkage/losses of potentail profit the same a theft!