Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok I tried some silkworms and I had the worst luck with them. I followed the instructions the company gave me. feed chow over worms, let feed dry before adding new feed, keep between 78-88 degrees. I had well over half die on me! and they smelt BAD! I'd rather smell cricket poo. I've herd they are not supose to smell! What am I doing wrong or not doing?

My chameleons loved them though. Is there something I'm missing? what do I need to do to keep these darn things alive and less smelly? any help would be great.
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From Sunny Florida
Jovana's kids listed below
1.1 Veileds
1.0 Ambanja Panther
1.1 Tamatave Panther

Silkworms haven't given me much issues. Outside of that strange 'stale cigarrette' smell from the chow, I have NO complaints! Perhaps your die-off comes from keeping them too warm (?). I keep mine on the cool side, about 82 and in the incubator up to when they're about one inch long. At this point, I take them out of the incubator and keep them at room temp.
The only other explanation I can offer is the chow itself. You have to keep the cooked stuff as close to sterile as possible. I always re-wrap the unused portion with fresh cling-wrap, and in the fridge. And I never handle the stuff unless I wash my hands thoroughly, and use a clean piece of cling wrap to handle the stuff, never with my bare hands.
Just suggestions from my personal experiences. Hope they're useful.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

I know the preferred way to feed the silkies is to grate the chow and put it on them. I find that it is much easier, more sanitary and cleaner to slice it into appropriate size chunks or strips. It is easier to remove any frass (poop) and to clean up. In nature they would be holding on to a stem while feeding and leaves have edges, so by cutting into strips you are providing them with a more realistic scenario. You can also lay wood skewers so they can grab onto something (just make sure they are clean and replace frequently!)

All the years I have been raising leps (hobby, not feeders) I only once used artificial chow and it was recommended to me to present it this way. When I began to use the chow for silkies, I tried this grating method but ended up dumping it the next day because of the mess.

As for temp: higher temp=higher humidity – a big No-No for cat larva. I have been raising other leps for years (hobby, not feeders) and they are VERY sensitive to bacteria and viruses. From your description they contracted something and once it is in there the warmth and humidity creates ideal breeding ground! if you see any dead or dying remove immediately! You need to clean the frass at least every couple days, don’t crowd them, and keeping their temps lower is fine. Mine are at an ambient room temp of about 70° and cooler at night.

I have devised a neat and easy way to care for and clean. I have them in a 10 gal. tank (obviously this will vary on size and how many). On the floor of the tank I have placed the plastic egg cartons wall-to-wall. On them, I have placed pieces of plastic canvas (sold any craft store) on top, again, wall-to-wall. I then put the silkies and cut chow on top. When they are small the frass fall thru, as they grow not as much falls thru but all you need to do is pick them up (canvas and all) shake off the frass, empty the egg cartons and replace. It takes me a matter of a few minutes to clean the tank which I do every other day. Btw, I cover the tank with a screen and then solid Plexiglas cover all but an inch or two. This allows ventilation but the chow does dry out very quickly.

Hope this helps; just remember not to let it get too warm or humid, monitor it closely until you have it down. It has some good tips about keeping it sterile and as Victor points out handling, the food with clean hands is crucial!

lele
Here is a link to Mulberry Farm’s instructions on making the chow. Scroll down to Cooking Instructions:
Silkie chow

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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & no name
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & no name

We were told be Mulberry Farms that the biggest cause of rapid smelly die off is due to contamination. Once you take a silk worm out of its container and put it on a branch or handle it do not put it back in the colony. Secondly don't handle or disturb the colony by cleaning it. This also is cause you to contaminate your colony. Ours don't smell or die off in large quanities any more after we changed a few things. We keep our worms in 2 12 quart plastic containers (approx 1200 each)while we are growing them. They are easy to handle and you can just carry them with you as you go to each cage to feed. We usually buy 10,000 at a time and put 3/4 of them in the fridge and then start a new batch every week so we have a constant supply.

Yosemite
Reptayls Ltd.

>>Ok I tried some silkworms and I had the worst luck with them. I followed the instructions the company gave me. feed chow over worms, let feed dry before adding new feed, keep between 78-88 degrees. I had well over half die on me! and they smelt BAD! I'd rather smell cricket poo. I've herd they are not supose to smell! What am I doing wrong or not doing?
>>
>>My chameleons loved them though. Is there something I'm missing? what do I need to do to keep these darn things alive and less smelly? any help would be great.
>>-----
>>From Sunny Florida
>>Jovana's kids listed below
>>1.1 Veileds
>>1.0 Ambanja Panther
>>1.1 Tamatave Panther

Yosemite,

My only disagreement with this is not cleaning. Frass, if not removed, will mold easily and cause bacteria to grow. I have been raising luna, cecropia, royal and other Giant Silk Moths for 5 years and have never had a problem form handling them (minimal but sometimes necessary), always with freshly washed, rinsed and dry hands, and I am obsessive about keeping their environment clean.

do you just let the frass build up for weeks on end? or do you feed them off quick enough?

lele

>>We were told be Mulberry Farms that the biggest cause of rapid smelly die off is due to contamination. Once you take a silk worm out of its container and put it on a branch or handle it do not put it back in the colony. Secondly don't handle or disturb the colony by cleaning it. This also is cause you to contaminate your colony. Ours don't smell or die off in large quanities any more after we changed a few things. We keep our worms in 2 12 quart plastic containers (approx 1200 each)while we are growing them. They are easy to handle and you can just carry them with you as you go to each cage to feed. We usually buy 10,000 at a time and put 3/4 of them in the fridge and then start a new batch every week so we have a constant supply.
>>
>>Yosemite
>>Reptayls Ltd.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Ok I tried some silkworms and I had the worst luck with them. I followed the instructions the company gave me. feed chow over worms, let feed dry before adding new feed, keep between 78-88 degrees. I had well over half die on me! and they smelt BAD! I'd rather smell cricket poo. I've herd they are not supose to smell! What am I doing wrong or not doing?
>>>>
>>>>My chameleons loved them though. Is there something I'm missing? what do I need to do to keep these darn things alive and less smelly? any help would be great.
>>>>-----
>>>>From Sunny Florida
>>>>Jovana's kids listed below
>>>>1.1 Veileds
>>>>1.0 Ambanja Panther
>>>>1.1 Tamatave Panther
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia

I too have had die off from handling the worms too much. I tried cleaning out the droppings/uneaten food and had more problems than if I leave them be. After cleaning they'll start to die by flattening out one by one. As Morgana mentioned, Mulberry Farms also has this in their FAQ, so it's the experience of others as well.

I've done quite a few batches of silks and IME, uneaten food and frass don't mold at all of they are allowed to dry between feedings. I test the uneaten food and frass with my finger to make sure it's dry. I actually do let the frass build up for weeks on end. I only clean the container when I've finally fed them all off. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but it works!

Sometimes, I separate a batch into two separate containers to give them more room to grow. When I do this, I just try to move the uneaten food/frass/worms in one big bunch to the new container and I don't have any problems. They seem to grow bigger with some room.

The silks we get have been raised in captivity for hundreds of years. Because of this, there may well be some differences in what works for them as opposed to other insects - even those that are closely related. If you can clean them out and don't have the die off problem, I say, go for it.

I've done hornworms too, and with them, you do need a way to clean out the frass.

just my 99 cents...
Joel Fish

Hi Joel,

I have no problem with loss cleaning their frass every other day - whatever works, right?

Just a note about your "flat" silkworms - they molt 3x from first hatched to late instar and the skin they leave behind looks like a flat silkie so this may be some of what you are seeing - or not

lele
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta