Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Would that not be the same thing people are talking about right now with crickets and dragons? Why not feed your kitten as many mice as it will eat in 10 minutes, 3 times a day. After all, they are still wild animals, living in captivity, just like dragons. Do you feed your dog out of a can or a bag? Why not let a rabbit go so he can chase/kill/feed himself, kind of like a dragon would do with crickets.

I have nothing against feeding live prey to dragons, even if a silkworm will not move and run like a cricket. I just do not like crickets and the diseases that they carry. I currently feed live mealworms, super worms and also silkworms. My adult females also get thawed 3-day-old mice every other week, unless they are gravid, then they get a little more dusted with cuttlebone.

I am a person who prefers pellets to crickets any day of the week. I think one of the problems when people hear the word “pellets” is that they tend to think that is all the dragons are fed. If you read most care sheets of people who feed pellets instead of crickets, they say they still feed a mix of salads and also some other sort of live/dead prey, not just pellets alone.

I feed all my babies very small mealworms, every other day with their salad and pellets. They jam off their basking rock and dive at the food dish whether the worms are there or not at feeding time. The dragons have access to fresh food all day long and eat when they want and when they think they need to. Dragons are attracted to movement and will attempt to eat anything that moves. Drop some pellets/crickets in front of them and they will gobble them up.

I think of the whole “How many crickets can my dragon eat in a day” to kind of like a trip to a Krispy Kreme doughnut store. If you have never been to one, when you walk in, they give you a fresh made doughnut that is still warm and just melts in your mouth, for FREE! Now, I could stand there for 10 minutes, 3 times a day eating as many of them doughnuts as I could, just like a dragon would do with crickets. Do you think I would have any room left over after a day of that, for a dinner salad? Neither would he…IMO

I have nothing against people who want to feed their dragons crickets, but everyone has to realize that there are other ways to keep a dragon healthy AND happy. If people think their dragons need more exercise/excitement, then drag a string around and let them chase that. People do it all the time with their cats.

Good luck in whatever way you decide to keep your dragon...
Steve

LOL

I love it

Just like I tried to say in the other "anti pellets" postings. My dragons do still get live foods, just not crix and not as often as other people feed them to their dragons
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

Cricket FREE babies!

That made me want to go hunt dinasaur dinner...
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TheClassyLizard

mmmmm......dinosaur

Laura

I have been out of the state & trying to catch up here lately. I saw some of the post you are talking about. Infact, I haven't even been able to read them all yet but I will. I feel the same way you do.
I also feed other crawlies in place of the crickets, just to make sure they are getting true animal protein & to get their satisfaction of "capturing" something alive.

I use the Cookies & kids comparison but I love your warm doughnut comparison. lol

I do not totally object to feeding crickets once the dragon is settled into it's new home and the stresses involved of shipment etc. are overcome. I would however recommend using Para-Zap as preventive though.

We all need to remember that what works for one, doesn't always work for another.

Here are my results from this year, without one cricket.
It's a quote out of an e-mail I sent someone this evening who was asking about the cricket/mealie debate.

"I have had awesome success without feeding crickets & plan to stick with the routine I'm using now.
My adult female laid 6 clutches this year (this being her first year of breeding, at age 2) the clutches averaged 20 eggs and the most eggs lost in a clutch was 2 eggs. There was 115 that hatched out and I only lost 6 of them. That is an awesome season from one pair (their first season at that) Not to even mention, "Cricket" Free. I think those results speak for them selves."

Anyway,, I'm glad you spoke up.

Later.

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Joel R

Coming Soon!
www.SpikesAndScales.com

"After all, they are still wild animals, living in captivity, just like dragons."

Actually they are not. They are domesticated. Hundreds to thousands of years of captive breeding tends to have an affect on animals. Also, dogs and cats (generally) have access to the outdoors or other stimulating things. Cats hunt rodents, have toys, dogs play catch etc. If your cat was stuck in a 4 foot by 8 foot room it's whole life I think it would be ludicrous to not give it some sort of thing to chase be it a toy or a live mouse.

Peter

Dogs and cats have been domesticated over thousands of years, only up until fairly recently have dogs or cats been fed out of cans or bags, the first commercial dog food was in 1860, the first canned cat food in the 1930's, considering how long they have been domesticated by humans, that is just a short time ago. Even with cats and dogs much research has been done to create diets well suited to them, to keep them healthy and happy, most owners also add much variety to their diets, and do not feed them dry food alone. We also offer them other activities to be sure that all of their needs are met.

I believe in preservation of the animals natural instincts instead of trying to thwart them through human ingenious. Offer what we can that is natural to them, encourage activities that invite them to do what comes naturally to them, its important for the health of their bodies and mind. I would not hobble my horses, and ask them to never run again, I cant keep an animal and feel that I am doing them justice by not allowing them to do what nature intended them to do.

animal conversationalists at places such as the San Diego Zoo and Wild Animal park, go to great lengths to preserve the natural instincts of the animals under their care. Though the majority of these animals were bred in captivity they will more then likely never be released to the wild, but perhaps future generations will be and they need to preserve these instincts to survive. Sure I am not a well know or funded organization, but I feel it is my obligation to try and maintain the integrity of these creatures natural instincts. I care for them enough to allow them to be dragons first and pets second.
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reiko
photos

most of those who are not feeding crickets are still feeding some sort of live prey a few times a week along with the pellet/salad diet, its not about feeding crickets, its about live feeders period, so whats the fuss? and i dont really get the cookie/doughnut thing, my dragons all get butterworms, roaches, supers, crickets, silkworms and occasional waxie and goliath, they all still eat their whole dish of salad and pellets each day even with their "doughnuts", never had a problem. *shrug* ah well.. to each their own

would love to see the episode where steve Irwin offers up a dish of pellets to Aggro, definatly would be a good one!

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reiko
photos

I have also yet to see an episode of the croc hunter where wild chickens are running around Agros pond for him to catch. They are frozen thawed, etc. They do the feeding shows etc. to educate the public and to create some exercise for the crocs. The crocs in the wild would be eating anything in their paths & I'm sure they are not getting exactly what they would be getting in the wild.

If some people are trying to find an easier way to care for their dragons and it's not posing any health threats, or better yet, is just as healthy as crickets,.

Well, enough I guess, this is just one of those things where everyone is not going to agree, & like I said before, any you have,, to each his own. I don't knock anyone who prefers crickets.

I will say this too,,, if not feeding crickets is proven to be unhealthy for them, then I would gladly start back.

Later.
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Joel R

Coming Soon!
www.SpikesAndScales.com

nope not dragging it on, think i have said my bit, and going any further would just be saying it all over again, to each their own. the original post that started it was just stating a change in one particular dragon that usually is on live feeders that was not fed them for a week, just thought it would be interesting. There is no way we can perfectly mimic what our dragons day to day activities would be in the wild, they after all live in 4x2 enclosures and in conditions far different, we can only do our best to provide the stimulus and cater to their instincts if we as keepers feel that it is important to our dragons, which i absolutly do... for each and every one of the animals in my care, four legs or two, scaley or feathered, doing what comes naturally is only... well.. natrual.

>>I have also yet to see an episode of the croc hunter where wild chickens are running around Agros pond for him to catch. They are frozen thawed, etc. They do the feeding shows etc. to educate the public and to create some exercise for the crocs. The crocs in the wild would be eating anything in their paths & I'm sure they are not getting exactly what they would be getting in the wild.
>>
>>If some people are trying to find an easier way to care for their dragons and it's not posing any health threats, or better yet, is just as healthy as crickets,.
>>
>>Well, enough I guess, this is just one of those things where everyone is not going to agree, & like I said before, any you have,, to each his own. I don't knock anyone who prefers crickets.
>>
>>I will say this too,,, if not feeding crickets is proven to be unhealthy for them, then I would gladly start back.
>>
>>Later.
>>-----
>>Joel R
>>
>>Coming Soon!
>>www.SpikesAndScales.com
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reiko
photos

I agree completely with you on that. Not only have they been domesticated for thousands of years, they are also mammals. I stand on both sides of the fence with this debate as a result of questions I don't know the answers to. I have a B.Sc. in biology with coursework heavy on animal behavior. I worked as a research assistant for 2 years in a behavior lab. I also have I minor in nutrition. None of these things makes me an authority on either subject, just want to let you all know where I'm coming from.

I have often wondered the legitimacy of giving emotions to our reptile pets, such as boredom and depression. I wonder if what we perceive as these emotions is just a lack of response to a stimuls that is not present, such as a moving cricket. Feeding response in reptiles is an instict that occurs when a stimuls is present. That would be movement with insects and colors and shapes with non-prey foods. Does the lack of that stimuls make a dragon bored? Does a dragon have the ability to sit around and ponder the absence of moving prey and as a result get deppressed? Are we going to far by projecting these emotions onto a reptile pet? I do not fully know the answers to these questions, but have my own opinions about them. All this considered, I do offer live food to my dragons, some more than others. I keep my dragons individually, and feed each dragon by what they seem to like more. Admittedly, I would prefer they eat more of the pellet and salad mixes.

As far as the nutrition aspect is concerned, I don't have any doubts that a dragon that eats the pellets(rep-cal) regularly will be any less healthy than a dragon raised on a diet of live and non-live foods. All the nutrients are there. The protiens in the pellets are complete protiens. The pellets contain as much protien as a cricket by dry weight, and more in the case of the juvenile formula. Anyway, I could go on for pages about nutrition, but I fear I might bore everyone. It's a subject I'm obbsesed with for both my reptiles and myself. I'm done, for now.
good luck
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
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