Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Like (probably) most of you, i used to give the old speach about beginners starting with this species, that species, bla bla bla...
Now i'm not sure if we have not been doing more damage than good with that old song. Let's see: we should be more focused on the size of the snake rather than the species itself. The bottom line is that any beginner should star with a newborn (captive born if possible) of whatever species he feels to suit his preference. How is a cornsnake ever going to give backgroung for a retic? It could even be misleading for the unexperienced.
Besides, picture this scenario: you want that stereo you've been dreaming of for so long, but have to settle for a lousy one right now. The day you get to buy the good one will be the same day you will throw the old one in the garbage. get the picture? If a guy craves a retic, but has to go from cornsnake to boa, then carpet python before he gets the retic(the snake that got him into herpetology in the first place) dont you think he might neglect them in favor of his new toy?
Having your mind made up about what you want and going for it is allways the best choice. When purchased yound, the snake gives the owner the chance to learn and "grow" along with her.
What do you think of this?

I don't own any retics, and my largest snake is a 5 foot yellow male Anaconda (So he won't get very big at all to begin with) but I agree, sort of.

I fully agree that a "newbie" (Sue me, I'm a gamer.) would be able to learn a lot about the snake just by growing with it. And that previous snakes may very well get neglected because of it.

But that's also part of my fear. When this formally 2 foot snake turns into a 5, 10, or 15 foot snake, then the trouble starts. I myself have almost been sucked into the Retic thing, they're absolutely incredible looking snakes in some cases. But my fear is that when it gets that big, the full realization of what they bought will kick in. A snake that will exceed (I'm assuming it's a common thing for captive retics, I have no experience) the 20 - 25 foot range.

And that leads to people wanting to get rid of them, possibly kill them, or do whatever it takes to get it out of their care.

I know everyone doesn't do it, but yeah, you get the point.

I guess that all brings it right back to square one, heh. But I guess either way, whether you're dealing with dogs, snakes, or lizards, you're always going to have people that decide they want to dump their pets because they're unable to care for it.

with retics they may grow to qucickly for them to grow togethere and if hes a good snake keeper hes going to keep all his snakes in good condition and not neglect any. just my .2 cents
simon

I, agree that if the person is a good herper, you won't neglect anything. my other thought and I am sure you will agree, once you get one, you just keep getting them, and it is an addiction. When I bought my first snake the guy I bought it from said you will either end up getting rid of this one or getting a lot more snakes. I have always wanted a big snake, my first one was a boa, after having it for a couple months decided to get one so I got my burm and then got a ball and now am looking again, this all within a year. And yes we all do show are favs. I take my burm out a lot more than my ball, that does not mean I neglect the ball. I still feed and handle and clean it all the time, I just dont take it out as much. My burm I would take out every day if I did not have to feed her and my ball a couple times a week. So I am sure if that someone was a good herper they would not neglect it, but I am sure there would be favs played. Just my thought

The real problem with getting a retic, or a burm as a first snake is that later down the road it will be neglected! A newb should get experience with larger snakes before he even thinks about getting something that can grow to 10 ft! I currently keep 1.2 bali yellow head retics which i've actually fought with my parents till now i can keep them. I'm 18yrs of age and I'm fully capable of keeping them. I have yrs of experience with everything from red tails to rainbows, ball pythons to chondro's. I don't have my first reptile I ever bought because with my parents it's always been you want something new you must get rid of the last reptile. I won't be getting rid of anything that I get from here in on out but I have been restricted to No more reptiles. Funny story I told my parents I was bringing home a 9ft female bali retic but I was 1 e-mail late and didn't get her. My parents told me NO way can I have a snake that big. Later on I end up Bringing home a 10 1/2ft Male bali retic and 5 and 6ft females! I'm expecting 16ft out of my females but we'll see. Start smaller as jumping into something that can get that big isn't smart for so many reasons. This is one of the problems with the low prices of retics and burms. Look at the herp societies, they will never be without a burm or retic for adoption because it's outgrown it's herper and they don't want to deal with it anymore. It's not easy to get rid of a larger snake TRUST ME! Basicly once that snake hits 9ft unless it's a morph or a one of a kind animal then your basicly stuck with it unless you get lucky. This is My opionion along with 98% of the people I've ever talked with.
John
A large snake is lifelong commitment, and the cost of houseing and feeding ISN'T the least bit cheap!

I don't think this is something that can be solved. It's more of a person to person thing.

Some people could buy a Retic/Burm/Green Anaconda/Any other large snake as their first and be awesome keepers. Others can start with a Corn and work up to a Retic and still be horrible keepers.

I have slowly read this entire thread (to date of my post here) and I have a few thoughts on this subject too. First of all, every person that has posted so far has very valid points and is correct in many of their views. No one person is entirely right and everyone else wrong,. it's more like a stew of a whole lot of correct points. But this post here really hits the nail on the head with this complex issue. It is SO true that it is entirely dependant upon the individual PERSON buying and keeping the snake,.. not so much what kind of snake he or she gets. My first snakes when I was 9 years old were rattlesnakes. I got my first boas when I was about 10 and my first burmese when I was about 11. This was back in the early 70's and not a lot of people knew much about reptiles in general and so as a result I was entirely self taught and learned primarily by trial and error. I made a lot of mistakes and as a result I lost basically all of my first snakes one way or another due to some form of ignorance on my part. But never once was the size of the snake any form of an issue with me. My first burmese reached over 11 feet within the first 2 or 3 years before I lost her due to a tragic mistake on my part. I was maybe 13 and very small for my age by the time she died. But her size was never an issue or a problem. At this same time I had other huge burmese, some really big retics and a couple of large rock pythons. Every retic and rock I had at that time were all imported snakes because no one was breeding them back then and so they were all HIGHLY aggressive snakes. As a result I quickly learned how to deal with them and even at a young age I had mastered how to handle them with an ease which resulted in almost never being bitten. I actually got nabbed much more frequently by the tame CB burmese and boas during feeding than by the aggressive pythons because my guard was generally down with the docile snakes. So in a sense the more aggressive the snakes I had, the more caution I exercised and as a result the safer I was overall. I even started handling and milking my rattlers by the time I was about 12 and I got quite good at it. During the 18 years I kept and handled hots (this ended in the 90's) I was never once bitten and only had what I would consider to be 3 close calls. The overall point being,. I was young when I started all of this with venomous reptiles and giant species of pythons, but I was serious about learning and doing it right and I think I did rather well with it. I had a few other friends that did similar things while at young ages.

Also,. I personally DO think that a young person or novice reptile enthusiest can acquire a juvenile retic or other large python species as a first snake, and "grow with it". In most cases it takes the retic or burm 4 or 5 years before it is of a considerable size and in that time a young teen would certainly have grown up. And most certainly a "newbie" would undoubtedly learn about the snake just during the first few months of keeping it and as it grows would undoubtedly learn how to cope with its ever increasing size. At Bob Clark's facility I personally dragged Fluffy around by myself from outside on the lawn to the facility and through all three buildings to her cage. I broke a sweat, but I managed to pull her 300 pounds and 24 feet, all by myself, without too much difficulty. And I am not a power lifting kind of guy.

So yes, I do think it comes down to the individual more than just a 'cookie cutter' type "ideal starter snake" for the ideal conditions in herp keeping beginnings.

Rott made some good points about it being expensive to keep large snakes. While this is true if one purchases their snake food from a pet shop or expensive rodent breeder, it is not the only way to get food. If one raises one's own food it can not only be cheap and easy, but it can be FREE if one sells surplus food to other reptile keepers to generate monies to pay for rat and rabbit food. Or, like in my case, it can not only be free, but it can also MAKE you money to breed and sell your own food. As I sell my food items very cheaply it is a win win for everyone involved. I get my free food, make a couple grand extra, and my friends save a fortune not having to order expensive frozen food.

Sorry for the long post. Very complex issue. Hard to sum up. I'm glad someone brought it up though. Things have been very dull in the forums lately. It's nice to have something slightly controvesial and intellectually stimulating for a refreshing change.

>>I don't think this is something that can be solved. It's more of a person to person thing.
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>>Some people could buy a Retic/Burm/Green Anaconda/Any other large snake as their first and be awesome keepers. Others can start with a Corn and work up to a Retic and still be horrible keepers.
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"If I had 365 enemies it would only take a year out of my life to settle all scores." Mia Miselfani

That you should go adapt or buy a large snake before buying a small one. I can see your point on that, and it is a good point, but that takes alot away. One you dont know what will make that snake strike, or what its like. Plus you dont get to say you raised it, and watch it grow. Not only that but not everyone is ready to handle a 10ft snake as there first big one. Like me, I bought a burm and have been handling it since it was a baby and have learned to handle it when it gets bigger, I dont know if I would have been ready for a 10ft right away. There are pros and cons to both, and we could go on all day and night, like the one post says its just a topic to discuss.

For that matter and people of all ages is the fact that anything can be bought,sold,traded for,etc.via the internet(the BIG problem).That means that there is no way to know how old,how much experience,what they keep,how they keep,etc.someone has without seeing them face to face. The person buying the retic or whatever may not have a clue of what color the sky is much less what to house a 15-20 ft retic in.The solution would be to shut down the internet permanently but that would never happen or could happen because then most people would be severly lost.The old-fashioned way of advertising in the local papers,face to face selling,buying,trading,etc.is the way it should be,at least then you could talk to the person buying the reptile or whatever and sorta get an idea of what kind of experience you are dealing with.At least then you could ask some simple ? like what size cage would you use for a 20 ft. anaconda?If they looked at you funny or said something like whats an anaconda then hey NO SALE.Also then you could see exactly how old they are and ask them some experience ?s to also get a feel of wether or not to sell to them.Simple plans are usually the easiest solutions to the problem but life is getting to the point of being simple anymore. Regards Bill McLeod

I agree with you that you should be able to talk to the person at least. I know when I got my dog, if you cant tell what it is look at the name, I had to meet the breeder my mom had to meet the breeder. I also had to sign a contract but I must say that would be a little hard for a herper, then again maybe not. Things will always get bought and neglected, no matter what age person buys it or what kind of animal it is, its sad but true. The best thing we can all do is take care of what we have and welcome those who care as much as we do. And try to educate those who want a big snake before they get one. I know laws are being passed to ban these types of snakes, and its a shame, but its what happens when ignorant people get things that can do damage, (pit bulls, rotts, big snakes... and so on). I hope they dont ban them here where I live because that would stink.