Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi folks: I am interested RETF, Tiger Leg Tree frogs, Clown Tree Frogs, and Blue Gliding Tree frogs.

1. I realize that most of us would not suggest mixing frogs in one enclosure. I have two hopes and wondered if you could help give me some realistic workable options. One wish is to keep the above animals healthy and breeding(that is first priority). The other is that i love to have a big show piece vivarium. Given these 2 wishes, can a huge viv 3'x3'x4'tall house any of the above frogs together, breeding and thriving and not end up with a disaster? I have been reading on certain breeder's site that they are keeping groups from 2 or more of the above metioned frogs, and or one with another ground dwelling dart frog with sucess. Can this be true or is it a romantic notion that is being given to promote business?

2. I know that RETF is nocturnal. On one site, it was said that their Tiger legs were behaving more diurnal. Which of the above are diurnal if any?

3. Would you give a comparison on the ease of husbandry, and the prolificness of any of the above mentioned frogs to Dart frogs. Though I do have experience with Tree frogs, Darts are more familiar to me and I have more researched info on them.

Thank you for your trouble. Maggie

I would like to comment that 3'x3'x4'tall is NOT huge. If you were to seriously attempt to keep all them together (that is at least 9 frogs), I would say at least triple that size. Only then could you get thermo and moisture gradients, and enough microhabitat to support all of them.

Everybody has the same dreams as you, unfortunately it just isn't possible without a HUGE investment.
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...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
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"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

Thanks. I haven't done the calculations as far as how many gallons a tank like that would be, buta similar tank I saw in those dimensions was 90 gal. Though I have read care sheets, I needed someone to address my specific line of thinking. My 2nd choice is to get 3 smaller separate tanks to house each in their own groups or be limited to just one community. More questions as I think this through to get it as close to my wishes while meeting frog needs:

1. so these frogs CAN be housed together provided a tank triple the size? Say close to 300 gal? Is this an endeavor for only a seriously experienced keeper?

2. Is housing together a negetive to successful breeding or neutral?

3. If I were to start with one of the 4 types in interest, which one would I experience successful breeding with easiest?

Thank you again, Maggie

Housing different species can be stressfull on your frogs, even if it is done correctly, so i would assume they would breed more often and more sucessfully in single species enclosures.
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0.1.0. Leo
1.0.0. Sneaky House Gecko
0.1.0. WTF (looking for a breeder male!)

your tank is 3'x3'x4'?
that is 270 gallons. that is a huge setup for tree frogs,since the majority of these people are using 29 gallons etc.

if you want to do it, you have to compare the requirments of each species. And setup the tank so it meets the needs of all the animals

Hi gang: thanks for the helpful comments. I don't yet have the tank. I was trying to do the research first and I really would like to have a huge tank amounting to the 270 gal. but it would be a lot of wasted space if I could not get communities of frogs to coexist without problems. First priority is still successful breeding, then a show vivarium consisting of exotic floura with communities of frogs living and interacting in the different microclimates. I realize it is stressful under improper condtions and these questions have been asked numerous times here, but if we were all not so facinated by them we would never investigate what we might accomplish with them. Could you folks discuss specifically as to what someone would face with a multi-climate tank, what the difficulties are, and whether these frogs would be indeed good choices for co-exsitence Or are there other better matches? I am assuming that these frogs will not cross breed and end me up with a bunch of mutts. I have separated dart tanks, of course, precisely for that reason. Again, I thank you in advance.

I extremely diagree with you mixing frogs in a tiny 270 gallon. The only person I knew who mixed successfully has species like callidryas, annae, etc. in a greenhouse with about 975 gallons each, like how it is in the wild. You should not cram species from Costa Rica, Paraguay, Asia, etc. into one small tank. You will not be able to get the temperature graduates and humitidty down in such a small tank. Also, the frogs that you have chosen aren't bulletproof, expecially rhacophorus reinwardtii. Phyllomedusa hypochondrialis and Agalychnis callidryas are more of a beginner/intermediate level and if you have little treefrog experience, I suggest you go out and buy one species instead of looking at pictures of all the ones you like and wanting to throw thme in a 300 gallon tank together. Very bad idea.
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P. sauvagei
derekb15.tripod.com/tropicaltreasures
4.2 P. sauvagei
3.2.7 P. hypochondrialis
2.0 P. vaillanti
0.0.3 P. aurotaenia
2.2 B. orientalis
0.0.10 S. pustulosa
0.0.3 B. americanus
1.0 T. horsefieldi

If you really have your heart set on a mulit species tank, maybe you could do some reserch and find frogs that come from the same are, like all from asia or all from north america ect... that would probbaly be better for your tank because you could include enough space, but still have a terrestrial species and an aborial (sorry about the spelling!) from the same climate. sorri i cant offer any specific examples but im sure somebody else here can!
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0.1.0. Leo
1.0.0. Sneaky House Gecko
0.1.0. WTF (looking for a breeder male!)

Hi Derek: thanks for the reply. The more answeres I read on this subject, the more puzzling the subject becomes. There seems to be so many differences in oppinion as far as what is a large tank and what is a tiny tank. Other posters in the past on this topic talk about mixing in a "large" tank over 100gal. but still others comment as you have that 300 gal is a small to even tiny tank. Whatever the case, I will keep asking until I get some info as to what makes a tank able to support the biomass and whether I can support that size requirement. As you can see in my many questions, please be assured that I am not only looking at pictures of what I want and rushing forward to pulling together these frogs into a inappropriate space though I do look at the pictures and have enjoyed them immensely, including the ones on your site. I have read and re-read info that was increasingly available for the last 20 years and have only recently begun keeping some more difficult frogs and seriously asking the what if questions. If a 1000 gal is what is absolutely required to mimick the wild, then perhaps I will do smaller tanks with one species first and then 1000 gallons in the end. Thank you for your candid response.

I tend to agree w/ the other posts. Mixing species is generally not a good idea especially when trying to breed. Red eyes are crepuscular-active at dawn and dusk. You could look into a diurnal species from the same geographic area so they would not compete for food or disrupt one another. Again though research and speaking w/others is your best bet. I've kept and bred red-eyes for years and house them separately from my other frogs.
Good luck!

Well, to answer your question, we really consider a "huge" or "tiny" tank to match the circumstance. Because those frogs require different environment-types, a 300-gallon is tiny to do that in... but if you just had RETFs in something like that, or just a single species in there, it's a huge tank unless you're breeding Just, mixing is best left to room-size enlcosures and people with tons and tons of experience in those specific species. And really best with animals from the same environments, with the same requirements, of the same "personalities," sizes, etc.
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Got hips like Cinderella / Must be having a good shame / Talking sweet about nothing / Cookie I think you're Tame

I hven't re-read all the posts but has anyone mentioned anything about endangering eggs and tads in a mixed tank? REs lay their eggs on the leaves dangling over the water. Would the other frogs eat them? RE eggs also have that "emergency" hatching responce too. If they unhatched tads feel threatened by a vibration on the plant they will hatch and drop into the water dish. Then you risk the chance of loosing a lot of tads.
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Heather
The Gang (1.1.0 agalychnis callidryas, 0.2.0 bufo spinulosus, 4.0.0 osteopilus septentrionalis)

ellasmommie@yahoo.com

I think that's 170-gallons or so. I haven't done the calculations, but I have a mesh enclosure that size that was sold to me as equivalent to 175-gallons... and that's not NEARLY big enough to house all those species together, IMO.
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Got hips like Cinderella / Must be having a good shame / Talking sweet about nothing / Cookie I think you're Tame

i can always count on this forum to help me do the right thing. So if I maybe start with the 200-300 gal tank and as someone pointed out having a group of RETF with a diurnal type from the same area, this might be an acceptable option. If so, can anyone comment what type might make sense with either RETF or Tiger Leg Leaf Frogs? I will acquire experience over the future years and hopefully be able to do the room sized greenhouse one day. Hopefully, one day you all can help me create that one!

I'd think that if you had a large group of RETFs in a large breeder tank you'd be more than satisfied with just them. Since they'll be much safer, happier, and otherwise healthier, I really think it's worth the sacrifice of just keeping to a single-species tank in this case. There are bound to be species that can co-exist well with RETFs, but there's also bound to be a lot of trial-and-error involved before you find the species... it's probably not worth the risk, and I doubt anyone here is going to recommend anything for fears of what could happen. The only frog I've heard that is kept relatively the same as a RETF is a Clown treefrog, but that's just what I've *heard* and the size difference alone makes them incompatible.

An interesting thing to do could be to split the tank in half with a divider and keep them next to eachother if they do, indeed, need the same conditions. Or do that with another species that also shares similar temps, humidity, etc. That way, you're always bound to have excitement in the tank but all animals are safe. You really could get creative that way, too, and make a theme tank split into halves or even quadrants. An awesome idea, although not many frogs could go into each part as the tank is split up more and more and may not work as a breeder at that point. Regardless, it's an interesting thing to work with!
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Got hips like Cinderella / Must be having a good shame / Talking sweet about nothing / Cookie I think you're Tame

do a search for an aquarium volume calculator. 3'x3'x4ft is 269.3 gallons.

Good to know.
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Got hips like Cinderella / Must be having a good shame / Talking sweet about nothing / Cookie I think you're Tame