Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I went to the reptile show today and couldn't say no too a few little female short tails. There sooo cute, and very friendly as well. Ill post some pics next week when im home for Thanksgiving as I dont have a digi camera here. I was really excited when I got home, until I saw one was foaming at the mouth! I thought she might just be dehidrated (she was obviously dehidrated..) but I popped her mouth open and one side has some white gunk around her teeth. I pinched it and you can pull it out. I think it is but really hoping its not a RI. Her mouth smells bad too. It looks like she might be having a little bit of trouble breathing. Im definately gonna keep a close eye on her, but does anyone know what this is, or if there is anything I can do? One other question, is it ok to keep two female short tails together, I did this with two female BRB with great success. They both seem very friendly so I think they will be ok, is there an age I need to seperate them at tho? Im def gonna keep them apart until I find out what the problem is with the one tho.

Ok...first off, just how "baby" are these babies? Young young young Borneos can be a bit delicate, and since one is already sick, they're going to need some extra TLC.

You NEED to set them up separately - the one with the "white gunk around her teeth" who is foaming at the mouth is SICK. Putting her with any other snake is going to cross-contaminate, which you've probably already done if you've been handling them without washing your hands (and clothes for that matter) between snakes. Without seeing the snake, I can't give a 100% definite answer, but it sounds like a combo of RI and stomatitis ("mouth rot". A vet visit is certainly in order if you're not experienced in dealing with situations like this, although these are things you want to look for and avoid BEFORE buying a snake in the future. Go to www.arav.org/USMembers.htm and search for a herp vet in your area. In the mean time, keep the snake isolated & warm and make sure it has access to a hide box as well as fresh, clean water. Keep handling to an absolute minimum. And keep it away from the rest of your collection!

IMO, there is no reason to house animals together outside of breeding purposes.

Good luck with your new babies.

K
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"Remember the days of the old schoolyard?" - Cat Stevens

Thanks for the quick responce K! There little babies, dont know exact age but about 7 in long or so. She definately has a RI, I didn't really check for the symptoms before I posted cause I noticed it WHILE I was posting. She has all the syptoms of RI. I pushed on her neck and drained the fluid that came out of her mouth, and cleaned the gunk her mouth with a sterile cotton swab. Ive just been sitting here "investigating" while her and her sister soak. She seems to be doing tons better over just the last hour or so. Her mouth stopped bubbling and shes keeping her jaw closed. She also drank some water which is apparently a good sign.. Shes still raising her head up to breath tho. Im sure the other snake has been exposed cause they were in the same container at the show.. I checked both of them over good at the show and she seemed healthy I guess i missed the white stuff cause it was only a little on her where her teeth are. Im hoping that this was just caused because of the show conditions and that she'll be ok soon. Im putting my heater next to her cage which also has a heat lamp and heat pad. Can't really take her to the vet cause I dont have the money. Ive already moisturized it and will be spraying it multiple times a day I guess. Is there a max temp that I should not let the cage get over? Everything I've read just sais increase the temp but I'm not sure what she was kept at before. Im assuming try to keep it around 90 until she starts feeling better? Im gonna let her soak a little longer, shes also under my desk lamp and the heater is on right near her. Is there anything else I can do aside from take her to a vet?

“I guess i missed the white stuff cause it was only a little on her where her teeth are. Im hoping that this was just caused because of the show conditions and that she'll be ok soon.”

Please take the good advice you received from KLG and FIND A REPTILE VET. Trust us, if this animal’s mouth “smells bad,” along with the other symptoms you’ve described, it did not get that way because of the “show condition.” Living under poor conditions for a longer period than that is to blame. And a little extra heat and humidity isn’t going to clear up what sounds like a systemic problem with this hatchling. Think of it this way, if YOUR mouth stank and had cheesy stuff inside and you were having such trouble breathing that bubbles came out your mouth when you exhaled – do you think you might need a doctor?

Sorry to restate the obvious, but this topic comes up constantly on every forum here and elsewhere, and more frequently in the winter. You spent money for a snake, it is sick, but now you say you don’t have the money to care for it properly. I suggest you consider trying to borrow the money, or use a credit card, or eat less, conserve wherever you can, and take it to the vet. But you already know that, don't you?

Good luck,
Joan

Joan,

Thank you for your responce. I understand the importance of seeing a vet, and i do my best to try and provide the best care for my animals that is possible. I also understand the common occurances of posts such as this one. While I might have made a blunder in my purchase of the animal by not calculating in the cost of going to see a vet the exact same day that I bought the animal. I dont see it as reason for verbal attack. I'm an unemployed college student, and sold one of my other snakes to make this purchase. I did not want to do this, but i've been getting more and more into short tails and decided I would rather have more of them. Fortunately I think I have lucked out, two of the reptile vets on the list which KLG was so kind to post are professors at my college. I have already sent them emails explaining my situation and requesting help in any ways possible. It will be tough to get them this week as there are only two days of school (thanksgiving holiday). On the bright side of that I will be home working during the holiday. Before someone posts it, I know time is of the essence in my situation. My only other option right now is to go to a vet and write them a check they cannot cash. So please if anyone has some positive help or reinforcement for me, I really greatly appreciate it. However if you wish to insult or attack me, please keep your comments to yourself, if you haven't figured out...im having a bad day!

Hello,

Good luck with your baby! A friend of mine recently lost a 15 foot Burm to a lower RI, so I'd be cautious; at the same time, I can completely sympathize with your finincial situation. I'm a herper in college too -- which brings me to my question: What school are you attending at which two of the professors are herp. vets? I'm looking to study herpetology and trying to find the best school at which to do it.

Thanks and good luck,
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A. Fox

Hey,

I attend the University of Georgia (cough go dogs) the two people listed on the Reptile Veterinarian's site are Heather Wilson, and Dr. Stephen J. Hernandez-Divers, which are listed in the Department of Small Animals Medicine at my school. We have a large Vet Med school and I know they have alot of treatment facilities and such for various animals. Personally I dont really know a whole lot about it tho or if there is a specific herp department I tried to find it on the page, but its a little hard to navigate, i'll post a link to the vet med website at the bottom. When I was in high school I worked at a vet/boarding center for a few years and thought about doing this as well, out of curiousity I looked at what classes i've taken that would transfer and I have 3 classes that would go towards a major in vet med; two english classes and physics (I'm a Junior in the buisness school).
As for the snake, she seems to be doing fine today I watched her for over half an hour and couldnt even find signs of trouble breathing or RI (I realize the problem is still there, just stating condition, please dont yell at me) She soaked for awhile and then got aquainted with her new home. One question, she seems to still be slightly dehydrated (wrinkly skin, and shes been drinking alot) if she doesn't hop in on her own should I soak her for awhile every day?
UGA Vet Med Website

Hey Jordan,
Just keep up the temps and the humidity in the cage, and provide the STP, with a large enough water bowl to soak completely in and it should rehydrate as the cells reabsorb the water. It will take a couple of days for her to rehydrate to a good fleshy state, but don't disregard the she might also, be a little skinny from not eating properly too. That faster you get her hydrated-fed and treated, the better her chances for recovery.
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In the theater of my life, this pickle has no goal!!

Im on it. Thanks Angel

Good luck with your baby!
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A. Fox

Like I said its a little hard to navigate. If you have specific questions I would email one of the department heads, and they can respond or direct to the info you need. A few of my friends are pre-med and working in some of the genetics labs that are doing tests with rats, they both seem to be enjoying it very much. Where are you at school now?

It's funny -- I'm actually at an art school right now, of all places. Only after getting here did I realize that my real passion was herpetology. I did well in high school, so I don't think transferring to a "real" college should be too big of a problem. I'd been mainly looking at schools in Florida, but Georgia sounds like a good bet as well.

Thanks again,
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A. Fox

Typically when transferring from one college to another they look at your grades in college instead of high school. I think at UGA its 30 hrs with a 3.5 gpa (not sure, its all relative to which school, etc. anyways). Florida is a good place to go to school too, I believe Florida State has a good vet school but I could be wrong. I definately love my town tho, more than enough things to do any night of the week, and would highly reccomend the school/area. If I can be any help just let me know.
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

Ok well they went to the vet and got Amikacin injections. The vet was trying to tell me tips on ways too keep them. He really didn't like my rubbermaid containers at all. The vet told me that putting them in my 10 gallon (together)would be more beneficial to them so that I could keep a better heat gradiant (not buying this). Right now there in 12Q rubbermaids which are pretty small, but I got these because smaller animals can sometimes be stressed out by being put in larger containers. I plan on getting bigger ones when they get better, but I dont see how a 10 g could even keep better heat gradiant as its only 4 in longer and also alot higher. The vet also said that I should put the heat lamp on top of the water bowl to induce humidity (hello bacteria). Claiming that the stiff humid air would hold more bacteria than the water bowl. Ill post a pic of their containers on this. Right now they are in these (seperately) with a 12 hour on/off shut off on their heat lamp. I put my space heater directly in front of their cages (on the heat lamp side) and its set on 88 (this stays on day/night and has digital thermometer and auto shut off). The only thing he said that made any sense to me was to put a digi therm with auto shut off connected to the light so that it will stay on all the time if it needs to be and shut off when it gets too hot (basically forgetting photo period). He was also saying to keep one side at 100 degrees and the other at 90. Im thinking that is way too hot Ive been keeping the hot side at about 93 or so and then it gets a few degrees colder at night. The vet did not seem to be very familiar with my Borneo "Blood" Pythons (as they were labeled in his computer. He kept boas and didnt seem to know much about the humidity requirements as he was stressing much more the importance of hot/cold sides of the cages rather than humidity. If anyone has some suggestions tho I appreciate it, but for now i'm just going to keep them as they are. Here is Dotty in her cage, sorry about the terrible color it showed up on the cam LCD and then when I put it on my computer it looked like this.

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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior