Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Okay, I'm confused about this one. There is a ghost boa being offered for $1100. All the other post that I have seen are $1800 and higher. So why is this $1100 ghost male still available? Is it the snake? the seller? terms? what?

sometimes when someone needs to move an animal fast they lower the price, sometimes lower than what they paid. I have bought boas in the past for really cheap just because they needed money for another project and the boas were very nice with no problems.

I have no doubt in my mind that that particular animal is top quality. I know Randy and have done business with him and find him to be very honest and upfront.

As far as the price difference, like the previous post stated sometimes people need money for other projects, and will sacrafice an animal at or below cost, let alone market value.

If I were in need of a ghost, I would jump all over that boy at that price. Im sure if Randy could learn to use his camera that animal would have sold 5 times allready (sorry buddy...lol)

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

Greg
Link

you are right about the pics.

Never a question about Randy. The only time I have seen anything of question about him was an incident with Bobby Pruett and it certainly was not my impression that Randy was the bad guy. I was looking more for information about Ghost. That post looked too good to be true. Based solely on investment, I was shocked that it did not sell within minutes of being posted. Because it didn't, I felt that I missed something obvious. If a ghost project was in my future, I would have jumped all over that deal. I just wanted to know why others did not! Is there anything about that snake that is not "A" grade?
Thanks
John Q

Well, they should have been going for about 2,500 bucks. But then someone comes along and don't know the true value of the animal and starts posting them on the classified for much less and then every one else that work long and hard on their ghost projects have to lower they price just to move the animals. Its just like if you went out and paid 10 g on a Motley and 3 years later someone comes along and starts posting them for 5,000. What just happen? They just killed the true value of the animal. Its not my place to say who killed the market of the ghost. L.H. But lets hope someone else don't come along and kill the vaule of another project.

I take offence to that statement. I think every animals value will drop over time as production catches up with demand. Lets not forget a ghost is only a hypo and an anery. Either animal alone is worth roughly 500 and that is being generous unless one is an A animal. Also its not like a ghost is the most difficult boa morph to produce. Both of theese add together to bring upon the drop in the ghost market we have seen recently.

However I dont feel any one person can kill a market, especially in boas. I myself am try to sell a ghost below market value, however its not a "standout" ghost. That one snake will not kill the ghost market in any way. I personally am looking at an 03 ghost I am considering panning out over 3 grand for. So the ghost market is alive and well, its just as time has passed only the A animals will sell close to that 3 grand mark, while lesser ghosts will sell closer to a grand. And next season this price will likely fall a bit lower.

The motleys are the same thing. As more are produced demand will drop for a while, causing prices to fall. You have to remeber not many people are spending thousands of dollars, let alone multiple thousands of dollars on a single snake. Most people are lucky to go the het route. Once an animal drops from the "hot new" phase to being just another high end morph, the production catches up, and the price drops. The limited number of people spending 5-20 grand on a single snake start to look to other "hot new" morphs to sink that considerable investment into. But once an animal gets to the 500-2000 range a whole new group of "investors" pop up looking to secure what to them is a very high end project.

Sorry so long winded, I hate when people say someone "kills" a market. Markets change, based mostly on supply and demand.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

He did sell when I posted for that price.Everyone was right,I have another little project going on right now and sold a few of my personal animals to fund the new project.Mickey hit the nail on the head!! My camera is not the best in the world.When I ship off this ghost I am sure I will get praise from the new owner because this is truly an amazing animal.I would NEVER sell a sub-par animal.Most people that get a snake from me tell me that the animal exceeded their expectations.I did not take a loss on the animal myself because I obtained him during a LARGE purchase of 13 top of the line snakes.In this HOBBY you have to be opportunistic.If you spend way to much time on kingsnake.com like I do,great deals will come and you have to jump quick or someone else will! I realize that sometimes things look too good to be true and sometimes they are;that's when you just have to speak with someone on the phone.Usually you can tell right off if someone is a "NUT!" I hope I cleared things up but this is a grade "A" animal and the new owner made a great deal and I achieved my goal as well.

Randy Bush

If *someone* wishes to maintain a higher price,in ANY given market,that *someone* should be prepared to "buy out" those who see fit to sell at a lower price?...or,show WHY their particular line is worth the original price???

If I had the money I would buy them out. Lets say if you and one other guy where the only two breeding your Harlequins to a motley and the other guy dropped the hell out of the price wouldn't you be upset? And to buy out another person so save the value of the animal is just dumb. So how are you and Brendan coming with them? I didn't get to see him in Florida this year I had to fly home that Thursday morning

there weren't two litters of ghosts born this year. There was quite a few, I bet somewhere between 5-10 . The supply skyrocketed and thus the price dropped, if you want to sell your boas either you produce superior product or drop your prices. In years past I didn't see to many ghosts for sale, this year there was quite a few. No one person is responsible for market fluctuation.. it's economics 101 .. Supply and Demand
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Got Bats?

I know of 3 people this you that produced ghost this year. Supply and damned would only rase the price or keep it from dropping. CE you look when the ghost boas hit the classified this year, their was only 2 people posting for them and each litter had killer animals on them. I agree with you. when you say if the animals not grade A. I'm not going to pay top dollar or even buy it for that matter. I could of paid 500.00 for a hypo last year but NO I paid 1,200 for them because the quality was their. and the person that started out selling the ghost for that low could of gotten top dollar for theirs

of course you are going to pay more for the best animals in the litter. The problem wit hthe "possible dominant" stuff is , do I get a refund if it isn't dominant ? If it's not a visable genetic trait why price them all high ? Why not price them the average market price (around 2K) and price the animals that are different and most likely dominat higher ? That sounds like the right way to do it, not sell them all for 3K knowing that 3 out of every 4 people who bought from you got a normal ghost at dominant ghost prices. I watch the classifieds like a hawk and watch the prices drop , but the prices only dropped as ,more and more ghosts showed up on the scene. If they are not selling like hotcakes at 2K what makes you think they would of at 3K ?
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Got Bats?

I wish you would get your money back if they turned out not to be dominant. But no was has the money to do DNA testing on them? You wanna go in on some DNA testing equipment ?...loll I see everyone's missing my point. I was trying to state that with the animals at that time their weren't many being produced at that time. I was just saying the project was still new at the time and someone comings along and drops the price that it depurates the value of the animal. Lets say I had 10,000 to buy a Motley and 4 years later sold them for 5k do you think the next person that has babies 3 months later can sell higher then what I am? NO

sell your animals for higher. The albino market is a perfect example , you can buy an average looking albino baby for 800-1000 but a really nice one that probably won't look like a giant banana as it matures will cost you up to 2K or more. There was alot of ghost around this year , if there's only one litter next year I'm sure the owner of that litter can ask his price.
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Got Bats?

True but look how many motleys are out their now. And if just one person produces ghost this year your damn right he can get his price. I agree with you on the Albinos. I have some pastels het albinos from Ronnie crossing my fingers on the babies

A breeder with your animals. Or, how long you have owned higher end boas. With that being said.......This is pretty much "Breeding boas 101".
Take the hypo craze two years ago. Rich was selling and making a ton of cash for his hypos. (Which I might add he deserved. He has focused all his energy into the hypo projects.) So, say I buy a couple of hypos during that "craze". Are you saying that in 2-3 years I should expect the market to stay the same? And, if it doesn't I should make accusations against Rich that he is ruining the market.

Or, what about when Jeremy came out with the first Sunglow with Tracey and Rich. He said it wasn't that difficult of a morph to make. So, he priced it accordingly. So, was that wrong?

Or, when Snows were made. Their prices were thru the roof. They have now dropped drastically. I see them for around 5000-6000 dollars now.

You say that a "new" project has been ruined. Well, here is a simple fact about Ghosts. If you have ever watched the market on them....They are not generally big sellers. People tend to be more drawn to animals with colors. Sad but true. People have shown interest in them. But, nothing like the other hypo morphs IMHO.
Then Linda comes along and breeds the first Ghost to Ghost. The babies are amazing. I should know. I own one and have seen the rest of the litter. When this litter "hit" it really did bring a whole new interest to the morph. This has been the most "press" I have seen on the morph yet. For two reasons. One, there are a lot of people out there who have been producing Ghosts. Two, the animals are looking better and better.

Lastly, an investment is generally never a 100% give me. All the breeders I have I paid good money for. But, I never was foolish enough to think that the selling prices would hold. Even with the newer projects. You can make some good side money with breeding snakes. You can even support your hobby and make some extra cash on the side if you are lucky. But, not many of us will make a ton of cash doing it. So, lets say you spent 1,200.00 on your hypo hets. If they breed you will still be making a profit on you initial investment. You have to be careful with the thinking, "If I buy this snake I will make this much down the road."

And, to make things right in my mind. I think you should apologize.
John
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"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."

all had litters I believe .. and I think one or two of the people above had more then one litter.
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Got Bats?

Isn't always practical,or,feasible,however,in leiu of mature,intelligent negotiations,(which takes at least two qualified partys,minimum.)it's the only answer that ISN'T "dumb"! The person most concerned about this issue,isn't you,but,he conducts himself in a similar fashion,and,this fact,rather than the perception of anyone else "crashing the market",is why he now has trouble moving his animals,(at ANY price.)this is no longer an opinion,he has made it a fact.damage to ones reputation is much easier to achieve,than it is to repair,and,unfortunately,some people can only learn that the hard way.