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We just received an adult female bd from someone who didn't want her anymore. When we introduced her my boyfriends young male beardie he (the lizard) fliped out...his beard turned dark black, he bobbed his heads a few times, jumped on her back and bit her in the neck. The female doesn't respond, and she is not wounded. She has waved to him a couple times though. Is this breeding behavior, or is the male just being aggressive? HELP!
Amy

You made a pretty expensive mistake. They probably bred. She'll lay fertile eggs. You have a few choices...

1) Hatch the eggs. You'll get alot, it's expensive. Hope you can sell them.

2) Get rid of them. (The eggs) First, freeze them before disposing of them. That's the most humane way you'll probably be able to do it.

Once you see her digging, put her in a laying box. Below is info for one.

"Pam Hanratty, prepping a laying box
If your female is digging like crazy, she is ready to lay the eggs *NOW*, today...even as we speak! Have you separated her from her mate? What type of egg-laying box are you using? Here's what I do: Fill an 18 gallon rubbermaid storage container with about 8-10 inches of *new* vermiculite that has been moistened with water until it is just moist enough to hold its shape when you squeeze it between your hands into a ball. Should *not* be dripping water! Add water a little at a time. Put gravid female into the box. Place the lid over one end of the box for some privacy in case she doesn't like being observed. Leave her in the box until she has laid the eggs and has completely covered them...she will be pretty tired at that point. Offer her some water and food after she is finished. Don't remove the eggs while she is watching. (Note from Kathryn; I find that The Babe doesn't mind if I remove them while she is laying; but if I remove them while she is looking at them, she will hiss!!! So take Pam literally; don't remove the eggs, WHILE SHE IS LOOKING!)"
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Zeo)
0.2.0 Leopard Geckos (Vienna, Chomps)
1.0.0 Golden Retriever, Rocky, 10 years young

Well for one the female was given to us by my neighbor because they could not care for it. We paid absolutely nothing for her and her tank setup.

Secondly as soon as he mounts her we take him off. The longest he has been on top of her is about 20 - 30 seconds. So im 100% posative they have not bred.

Third, that really doesnt answer our question O)

All we want to know is if that is breeding behavior or is he just being a bully.

Dont mean to come off as a jerk, sorry if i did. Thanks for the info on the laying box though! Im hoping i never have to use it.

Thanks again!

You did made several expensive mistakes, not just the ones the other poster stated and not just for yourself. Think about the female and your boyfriends dragons.

You just introduced a non quarantined dragon to your established dragon... hope they both are clear of common parasite, worms and other problems. Normal safe quarantine periods are 90 days.

Although the female is free and you have not established a bond with her, so I understand there is not the concern there for her yet, don't you think it would have been better to give her some adjustment time with you prior to adding more stress factors on her? Such as a normal male repsonse and attempts to bred, plus possibly making her gavid when you know knowing about her health (remember, you are the one that said the prior owner did not have time for her) and its the end of season when normal healthy dragons of breeding quality are going down for brumation?

Hope if she is gravid (it can take less that 10 secs) that you are able to meet her special needs she will have through a winter and being gravid.

Also, you might want to think about finding the answers to questions of contact between two dragons, prior to the act of it.
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www.reptilerooms.com

If you haven't already done so, please separate them!

I had the female in a totally different household (mine) for more than 2 weeks before the two even met. Their meeting was brief, and we waited another week to introduce them again. I know 2-3 weeks isn't the best quarentine period, but it is better than nothing. I am very experienced with reptiles (mostly iguanas and ball pythons), I know what it looks like when two lizards breed, and these two did not breed. He simply bit her in the neck, which caused her no injuries. Regarding the statement that "I have not bonded with her" and thus don't care if she is traumatized by the male...is totally untrue. I am simply looking for a home for her, and my boyfriend has a 175 gallon custom cage...I thought maybe he could house both of the lizards in the cage. It is as simple as that! I wanted to know if it was breeding behavior, or just an aggressive lizard, so we could decide where to go from here. We figured if he was just being aggresive, time may help....but if he was trying to breed, we needed to figure out where to go from there! I assume you all believe it is breeding behavior. I have more experience with iguanas, and I know when they breed it is quite violent. I am assuming male bds are just as aggressive as male igs concerning mating. I let my boyfriend keep dragonite (the female) at his house last night. They are in adjacent cages. Dragonite has never been so active, and she is adapting well. She is eating more than ever....I doubt she was stressed by the activity, because she is known for going off feed when she is stressed!

Does anyone have experience housing two bds of opposite sex in the same enclosure? Not to say that we are going to be able to...
Thank you for your opinions,
Amy

I doubt she was stressed by the activity, because she is known for going off feed when she is stressed!
::: sigh :::

Does anyone have experience housing two bds of opposite sex in the same enclosure? Not to say that we are going to be able to...

Housing a female and a male together is not a recommended practice at any time. The male by instinct will constantly try breeding the female and it will stress her. Placing them together for limited times when you are trying to breed them then removing them is recommended. Most males live alone, that is their way in the wild also. Housing them together will usually lead to the female being injured over a period of time, you've seen a small sample of what it would be like. We have also seen a neighbor's where the male can be injured (lost a foot) when the female is aggressive and gets frustrated at being pestered continuly, which the male will do

A new dragon introduced into a household should not be placed near another one for 3 months, that is the time that virus and other problems may emerge if one carriers them. And fecals should be run on both and no contact til those are clear. This affect not only the dragons, but any future offsping.

You can house two or more females together, but have to watch that one is not dominate over the other and affecting the growth or eating of them.

Only when you finanacial are ready (babies are very expensive to raise properly, approx $1000) and the female is ready and you know in peak health(including season time with brumation consideration) should they be place together.

Please think about giving her some adjustment time into a new home and new owners before subjecting her to any additional trauma. Getting to know her and building a bond with her is worth it for her and you.
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www.reptilerooms.com

Thanks for the information...again we are not intending on breeding her, so it from what I gather it is in her best interest to be housed separately from the male. I am trying to find her a new home, and although I know I didn't keep her away from the male long enough, I am just trying to figure out where to place her, so I got a little excited about introducing them. Ultimately, she has a home with me if all else fails, but I have a 4 ft 11 lb iguana that takes up a whole bathroom in my house lol...meaning I have "a lot of lizard" to take care of as it is! She is a sweet little girl, so we'll see what happens! Thanks again,
Amy

"If you haven't already done so, please separate them!"

They are seperated, always have been. The only ocntact they have is when we take them both out of their respective tanks and let them roam around the floor while *both* of us watch. When they get to close and mount we seperate them. It has only happend 3-4 times. The longest time was 20 seconds or so and it was mostly the male taking his mouth and biting and trying to rip out scales on the neck of the female.

CheriS - Thank you for all that information. But i just had a simple question and just wanted a simple answer. Thats it.

"You did made several expensive mistakes, not just the ones the other poster stated and not just for yourself. Think about the female and your boyfriends dragons.

You just introduced a non quarantined dragon to your established dragon... hope they both are clear of common parasite, worms and other problems. Normal safe quarantine periods are 90 days.

Although the female is free and you have not established a bond with her, so I understand there is not the concern there for her yet, don't you think it would have been better to give her some adjustment time with you prior to adding more stress factors on her? Such as a normal male repsonse and attempts to bred, plus possibly making her gavid when you know knowing about her health (remember, you are the one that said the prior owner did not have time for her) and its the end of season when normal healthy dragons of breeding quality are going down for brumation?

Hope if she is gravid (it can take less that 10 secs) that you are able to meet her special needs she will have through a winter and being gravid.

Also, you might want to think about finding the answers to questions of contact between two dragons, prior to the act of it."

Can any of you people actually read?

1) We accuired the animal from her next door neighbor. It is free of parasites and is healthy. She stoped eating for a week or 2 but has made a complete turn around since we have had her in our care. She is eating helathy and often, no signs of diseas at all.

2) I care for the female just as much as i do for my dragon. Why would you assume i have not? She has been at my girlfriends house for 2 weeks prior to her being brought to my house. She is extremely laid back and warms up to people very easily.

3) As i stated before, they did NOT mate. If you dont want to belive me then thats fine. But you are completely wrong.

4) The question ih have matters not at all if i asked before or after i required the dragons. They were seperated as soon as it happend. so regardless if i knew they were attempting to breed before i got them, i still took them apart ASAP.

5) You still havent answerd the question. All we want to know is if it was breeding behavior or if he was simply being aggressive.

Why is it so hard for people to read and just answer the simple question?

just for reference oogieboogie and reptilicus are talking about the same animal! I understand sometimes we see people make dumb mistakes and thus we try to prevent other people from doing the same, but often times it is better to approach the situation realizing that no two animals are alike, and no two owners are alike. I do appreciate all of your comments! And if anyone has anything further to add I will definetly keep an open mind! Focus on the question at hand though....

Thanks,
Amy

While i do appreciate everyones concern, i on the other hand dont really want anyones opinion on if they think we made a mistake, or what their views are on housing BD's together, or hwo long we should have waited before introducing them.

I have read all that already. I have seen the views from every side on all of these arguments. You expressing them again here are not going to change that. All we wanted to know is what behavior they were showing.

We wanted to know if they were trying to breed (so we dont put them together in the future cause we dont want babies) or if the male was simply being mean. (hence more time together could possibly fix that)

I know i sound rude, but i really dont want your opions telling me that you think i screwed up when i didnt o)

YES... it sounds like breeding behavior to me. While some of the points made by others are valid,they are a bit presumtuous. True putting two animals together without a 90 day quarantine is not the best thing to do, but if contact was limmited then so will the chance of something being transmitted. Parasites are transmitted through feces and/or fluid exchange. Coppulation usually takes more than 10 seconds and if you were watching, there would be no mistake on whether or not the deed was done. As far as stress goes you are usually pretty safe with adults, it's the babies you need to worry about.
and yes it sounds like breeding behavior to me.....

Thank you for the info!

This morning i let them have some supervised time together again and it was almost wose then before.

I set the female down and then got the male. As soon as he hit the gournd he puffed, bobbed and ran right at her. But no mounting this time. he went straigh to her side and bit her ont he beard and started to thrash about.

Also, the female wont sit still. I have her in a temp cage for now. Its one of those mesh cages. She constantly climbs trying to get out. Her tank is right next to the males, could she possibly be trying to get to him?

Im guessing it might be because she is used to being out of her cage and beign able to roam a room by herself. She also likes to get as close to the UVB light as posible and sometimes puts her hand on it as well. Is that normal?

First, a couple of questions. How is the female responding to the male's advances? Is she head bobbing, arm waving or laying flat and pressing her chin and body to the ground? The male is displaying dominance. If the female is not waving or laying flat, she is not submitting. That would account for him going straight for the chin and thrashing. This is not a mating behavior. That's his way of saying...."now [bleep], you're gonna do what I tell ya"ha ha). But for real, if she's not submitting it would not be a good idea to put them together at all. Judging from your description of her behavior in her own cage and because she can see him I would say she is probably just trying to get away. I would advise moving her somewhere where they cannot see each other. If it's a new enclosure, it might also just be that she is not comfortable in it. You said it's a mesh cage, which does block light even if the light is sitting directly on top of it. This may account for her getting so close to the bulb. Remember, it's not just UVB that you are trying to provide. Light intensity actually plays a larger role. These are sun loving animals so you want to get as many lumens as possible on the animal.

Ahh now were getting somewhere!

Every single time except once she has flat out ignored him. She normally just stairs at him, then gets bored and walks away and makes no mention he even exists to here *lol*

Once while they were in their respective cages did i see her wave. I jumped out of bed it was so cool. She rotated her right had in a circle once. BUT i dont think he saw it, he was on the left side of her and he couldnt really see the hand at all. But it was sooooooo cute to see her wave.

Im not so sure she is trying to get away from him. She goes straight twords his tank as if she wants to get in there. She climbs the mesh side that his tank is located on. Tm ill place a towel inbetween the two cages and see if she settles down though! See if we can pinpoint the reason she is doing what she is doing.

It was her old temporary cage. The one she has been in for 2 weeks at my GF's house. But as i said, she had free roam around a room all day and all night. So she might have gotten used to jsut being out. When i take her out of the cage she loves to jist sit on top of the mesh cage and stair at the UVB bulb. Then after a while she likes to move some more.

maybe if i try and put her in saku's (the male) cage for a bit and see how she reacts in there. Its a 40 gal tank which is about 10 gallons bigger then her temp mesh cage. (Im building a custom tank cage as we speak. It will be ready by next week. So like i said its ONLY a temp cage for all of you that want to jump on me bcause the tank is too small *lol*)

Anywho thanks a BUNCH for all the advice. keep it comming! Its greately appreciated.

Oh i forgot to add that YES when he mounts her and bites her she lays flat on her belly and just tries to scoot away slowly. She doesnt even acknowlede him on top of her.

It is very possible she just enjoys being out of the cage as well, especially if thats whats shes used to. It may also be she cannot see through the mesh very well and sitting on top of the cage affords her a view of everything around her(new surroundings). This could also be a simple matter of dominance. If she is sitting on her cage and is at a higher level than the male, he may be considering that as a challenge for dominance,especially if she does not submit(arm wave or lay flat)....Yet another option.. she could be playing hard to get. In the realm of survival of the fittest, females will often refuse to acknowledge the males courting to test him and find out how strong and persistant he is. OR.. she may be begining brumation. If she can see ANY natural sunlight she no doubt is under at least some influence of less than 12 hours of daylight.

Welll, i know i might get heat for this from some users. But i decided to let her go into Saku (the males) cage for the rest of the night. She seems to have completely stopped and is now chilling quietly in the tank.

Saku went into the mesh cage and has no problems at all in there. I will leave her in tonight and then check on them tm alld ay to see if anythign chagnes.

Thanks yet again for the replies. They were extremely helpful. I will keep you posted and if you could check up on this thread or click the email button it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

So as i mentioned before, i let the female sit in sakus cage and let saku go into her cage. She is completely fine in there and just chills. Saku is perfectly happy in the other cage as well.

But now for the turn of events. I gave them some more supervised time together today. I put the female down on the bed then retrieved saku and brought him down. Neither really did anything for a bit. After about 2 min saku started his head bobing thing. He did his thing for about a minute and then BAM the female ran right up to him and jabbed him in the side with her nose. She would do this then stop and look at him. He would try and puff up and she would jab him again. He would bob and she would jab him again time after time. He had NO IDEA what to do *lol* He tried to move around her and bob some more and she come up to him and jabbed him some more.

So finally he just turns and walks away! Came right up to me and i put him back in his cage. Maybe there is hope for them living together after all.

Any thoughts?

sounds like the female is either rejecting the males dominance or she just does not want to play. I would not put them together unsupervised.

I figured the same, she was testing him and then since he ran away rejecting him.

Is there possibly hope that they will get along in the future? Or that since she is much larger then him he wont try and force himself on her?

But either way they are not getting in the same cage for a long long time (if at all)

Thanks again