Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have 2 adult leos (almost 2 yrs old).. I am currently using Zoo Med repticarpet (like felt).. .I would really like to put them on some kind of calci-sand, repti-sand or something.. easier to clean, looks nicer, etc.

What is the risk of impaction with an adult leo on a sand substrate?

Thanks!

Don't buy calci-sand!!!!!!!!!!!!
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1.2.0 Leopard Geckos
2.1.0 Chihuahuas
2.1.0 Rottweiler Mix
1.0.0 Siamese Cat
1.1.2 Dwarf Hamsters

Josh
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what about reptisand? why not calcisand? what are your experiences?

No sand is good for leopard geckos...... Why is it people see a need to give leos a sand substrate when they do not live on sand in the wild...... They live in rocky outcrops and dry grasslands...... Do some research people.......

Although I am against sand, I don't understand why people try to be rude about other people's questions. His idea has probably come from the idea that sand is worse for babies than adults, even though both can become impacted.
==>CalGecko: sand isn't good, no matter what type you use. Calci-sand is especially bad because the grains are bigger and can cause impaction quickly. If you want a more naturalistic looking set-up, then you may want to consider tile or slate. Personally, I use brown paper towels so it pretty much just looks like dirt It's the kind that can be found in public restrooms - I just took it from the bathrooms at work

Good luck with your research and take care with your leo!

[aimEe]

>>No sand is good for leopard geckos...... Why is it people see a need to give leos a sand substrate when they do not live on sand in the wild...... They live in rocky outcrops and dry grasslands...... Do some research people.......
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0.1.0 Albino Leopard Gecko (Marlene)
0.0.2 Fire Bellied Toads (Norman & Forman)
0.2.0 African Dwarf Frogs (Hobo & Bobo)
1.0.0 Fighting Fish (Blue Balls)
0.0.2 Hermit Crabs (Kirby & Furby)
1.0.0 Black Lab / Pit Bull (Mikey)
aimee.i8.com

Thanks for the response I have had my leos for about a year now... again, they are adults (about 2 years old).. and I do know that leos should not be kept on any type of ingestable substance as a juvenile, but the topic is not as big a deal for adults.

GaboonKeeper - thanks for your helpful post... /sarcasm
I would consider asking a question on this forum to be 'research'...

Now, if I had switched to sand and THEN posted here, asking the same question, I might expect a response like the one you gave... but for now, I still have the repticarpet substrate thankyouverymuch.

Still looking for more responses though... thanks all!

Do you honestly think a leo does not come across and even consume loose soil in the "wild" as you put it? Sand is fine for a leo and many keepers have used it for years without incident. I have been keeping leos for 12 years and have never had one get impacted on any substrate. On the very rare occasion that a leo gets impacted , it is most often due to something else lacking in the care of the gecko, like improper temps, dehydration, sub-optimal calcium supplementaion. Who cares what there would experience in the "wild", the are in captivity and they do well on many different substrates. It's up to the individual owner to decide what that might be.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

Your better off going to Home depot and getting a 50 lb. bag of playsand. The risk of impaction is close to zero if you meet all other husbandry requirements.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

Ground up Walnut Shell. It's save, digestable, looks good (at least I think so) not too expensive, and easy to clean. Dunno if you can get any where you live... although you should.

I havn't found anything wrong with it. Here's a pic

Image

Woah do NOT use walnut shell, the most impactions have been caused by this. If they eat it the sharp edges cause internal bleeding i have known quite a few people with this happening to. The worst substrate there is! Any sand is better than this.
Please don't hurt your reptile with this walnut stuff that is the worst thing for them!
This i know from others experiences.
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Lauren
Leos and Uros
1.1 Saharan Uromastyx
0.0.1 Mali Uromastyx
1.1 Jungle Albino Leopard Gecko
1.1 Hypo/Baldy Leopard Gecko
1.1 Tremper Albino Leopard Gecko

i heard walnut shells aren't good for leos because they're the easiest to ingest and cause impaction.

[aimEe]
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0.1.0 Albino Leopard Gecko (Marlene)
0.0.2 Fire Bellied Toads (Norman & Forman)
0.2.0 African Dwarf Frogs (Hobo & Bobo)
1.0.0 Fighting Fish (Blue Balls)
0.0.2 Hermit Crabs (Kirby & Furby)
1.0.0 Black Lab / Pit Bull (Mikey)
aimee.i8.com

Crushed walnut shell is one of the worst substrates you can buy. Its not digestable in any way, can cut up their insides if swallowed, impact them, and when the stuff gets wet, it gets moldy extremely quickly. I don't want to sound harsh or anything, but i would remove your gecko and switch it to something a little safer, just to be on the safe side. Better to be safe than sorry!
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~Melissa~
1.3 Leopard geckos
1.0 Bearded dragon
1.0 Hog Island Boa
0.0.1 crested gecko
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Chinchilla
1.0 Chinese Praying Mantis

Melissas Menagerie

That's a piss off... so many people have told me to get it. Not just petstores (I wouldn't listen to someone looking for a profet) but breeders, friends... I think even this forum (and several others) they all suggested it... meh, just a bunch of bad info then.

Well, what's best then?

Well, for safer substrates theres always slate tiles, carpet, and of course, paper towels. If your geckos are old enough they can go on sand, but as with my loose substrates theres the impaction risk. There is a lot less of a risk with sand though, than there is with crushed walnut. You could also use bedabeast or ecoearth, as long as its all dried out. Its coconut fibers but they are ground up to pretty much dirt so if your leo eats any of it by accident, it isnt as bad. Good luck!
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~Melissa~
1.3 Leopard geckos
1.0 Bearded dragon
1.0 Hog Island Boa
0.0.1 crested gecko
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Chinchilla
1.0 Chinese Praying Mantis

Melissas Menagerie

Hey CalGecko,

I used to keep my leos on calci-sand as well. I had a scare a little while back with one of my 3 yr old females. Whether it was impaction or not I don't know but I took her to the vet(her abdomen was very swollen, but she wasn't gravid) and she pooped a big one when they tried to get a second x-ray, so it was money well spent! Anyway, I talked to my friend Marcia at GoldenGateGeckos about my problem and she offered some very knowledgable insight on the subject. I am going to paste that part of the email in this post I hope it helps with your decision. Oh and I might add my leos are on slate tile from Lowe's now. Looks realistic and very easy to clean up, since leos only relieve themselves in one area in a cage.

Here is that email:
Hi Tim,

I'm glad you are getting rid of the Calci-Sand! I do not recommend it not only for it's potential for impaction, but for an additional reason, too. As you may know, I was a Chemical Engineer for 26 years before I became disabled... but I still dabble. Here's my theory: Calci-Sand is made of calcium carbonate, which is the main ingredient in many antacids such as Tums or Rolaids which are designed to neutralize digestive acids. Leopard Geckos have relatively short and unsophisticated GI systems, and having a constant level of calcium carbonate in their intestines not only can cause blockage or impaction, but also reduces the digestive acids and enzymes necessary for proper digestion. I know of a few lab experiments that were published on the solubility of Calci-Sand in water, and it was proven it does not dissolve as well as the manufacturers claim it does.

Hope this helps

Tim
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LEOs: 3.11.0
1.3 High Yellows (Barney and Betty);1.3 Hypo Tangerines(Bam-bam and Pebbles); 1.1 Rescued Normals (Shleprock) 0.4Tremper Albinos (No names yet), Lookin for a good male Albino breeder
BEARDIES 1.0.0
Snow and Yellow (Fred)

The interesting thing to note here is that just about every calcium supplement on the market is calcium carbonate. You know, that stuff we leave in the little dishes and we dust our insects with. I still fell that is a gecko gets impacted from a substrate is more often a result of something else lacking in the husbandry, such as low temps. and dehydration. My breeders constantly ingest AND pass there substrate in the layboxes which is a 50/50 mix of playsand and bed-a-beast.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

Hi Bill,

Yes, what you have stated is true. The vast majority of calcium supplements such as Miner-All and RepCal are calcium carbonate; however, they are designed with high solubility and therefore are readily absorbed in the reptiles' bloodstream.

Calci-Sand, on the other hand, does not dissolve completely in the GI track of many reptiles and tends to agglutenate, or clump/stick together, which increases the risk of impaction. As you have suggested, when Leopard Geckos strike at prey, they ingest substrate. A constant supply and level of calcium carbonate in their GI system from glottis to cloaca will neutralize gastric juices and impair the complete digestion of prey foods. Theoretically, this too could add to the susceptability of impaction.

We must keep in mind that the natural terrain substrate of Leopard Geckos is not sand, and therefore their digestive systems are not evolved or equipped to accomodate it.
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

Calcisand comes in all those crazy colors like black and purple and blue and stuff, which means its dyed. My boyfriend kept his leo on black calcisand mixed with regular white reptisand, and it turned the geckos feet black from the dyes. Also, I know a certain brand of purple calcium sand (not sure what brand) was recently pulled off the shelves because of the dyes staining reptiles. So this is another reason why i wouldnt use it.

If you want to go with sand, which is perfectly fine for adults as long as they dont ingest a lot while catching food, go with washed playsand or reptisand. Don't go with that new Vitasand stuff..it totally reeks of vitamins which would give your gecko an even bigger reason to lick it up. Hope this helps!
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~Melissa~
1.3 Leopard geckos
1.0 Bearded dragon
1.0 Hog Island Boa
0.0.1 crested gecko
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Chinchilla
1.0 Chinese Praying Mantis

Melissas Menagerie

www.pythons.com/calcium.html
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

Thanx for the link Marcia. I remember reading that a while ago. The theory makes sense, and I understand what you mean about calcium supps. For personal experience, I still feel that most often impactions are a result of something else lacking in the care and not the actual substrate. I have been breeding leos for 12 years and have used all kinds of substrates, I never lost an animal to impaction. I use fre-flo myself for 2 years on my entire colony (70 +), and even sold it for a bit. The reason I stopped using the product and sand is because of the dust. I honestly feel that if an leo is kept at the right temps and is properly hydrated and supplemented they will pass just about any substrate they are kept on if ingested. These are just my observations and experiences over the years.

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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

I agree. I have not used sand of any type for my colonies, so my information is not from first-hand experience... the info out there was enough to discourage me from using it. Fortunately, I have never had an impaction either, knock-on-wood! I know many who use ultra-fine playground sand, and have not had a problem, even though their gecko's stool looks like funny little sand castles. LOL!
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

Because, as others have said, leopard geckos do not live on sandy dunes, but they do not live on flat pieces of rock as well.

If you want a nice natural looking substrate then go with a desert Vivarium mix. In these mixes they use only natural ingredients which include crushed granite or some other natural sand and crushed coconut shell. Using crushed granite or collecting natural sand from a local desert looks much better then the fine sands like calci sand or play ground sand. Natural sand has multi sized grains, not present in sand dunes. You can make it wet and pack it down to give it a less loose apearence. With the adittion of the Vivarium mix, you want to add multi sized rocks that generally match the color of the substrate and cover most of the substrate with this rock. You can make little caves and burrows with the rock and you would want to hot glue or silicone these to secure them. Try and use un-enven and irregular rocks to look more natural. You can also use "desert" wood which is narled and irregular, cypress wood seems to look the most natural, but collecting some from a desert would be enven better and you can add a few desert plants to complete the terrarium.

In my opinion going for the naturalistic vivarium design is the only way to go. Its fun to design and looks very nice, and gives stimulates your animals using natural behaviors as they would in the wild.
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Bradley Baquial

I keep my leos on rabbit pellets. They have all the advantages of a granular substrate without the risk of impaction. They are very cheap (50lbs for around $5 at a feed store).

Pellets don't look as natural as sand, but I feel that their safety makes up for this. They also allow my leos to dig. I use flat cork slabs as their warm hides and they dig the substrate over the UTH to the appropriate depth needed achieve their prefered temperature.

-Alice