Reptile & Amphibian Forums

a petstore in a mall had the most saddest looking reptiles i think i ever came across, even petco has done better than this and i dont like petco at all, after looking at what they had we noticed that every reptiles had something wrong with them,a baby ball python was covered in mites,house and leopard geckos where thin,had stuck shed and no water,the uromastyx where in a 10g cage,and then the tokays,words just can describe them,it looks like something ran them over.

after the manager was notified i tried really hard not to get mad but i just couldnt,i told him of all the situations of the reptiles and then showed him the tokays,his words "there just tokays" just like that like it totally means noting to him that animals at his store will die,then just walked away like nothing was ever said,as we left the mall my sister thinking about it just could let them die so she bought all 3 of them and gave them to me as snakes is her thing not lizards,she was upset she couldnt get the ball python but it was too much money for it(100.00).

tonight or tommorow i will post the pics i have taken of them,one of them isnt so bad but the 2 are just sad cases of neglect,after bring them home i gave them 30 crickets and they ate all but 6 in a matter of minutes,just goes to shows that feeding thier animals isnt priority.

anyways ill keep the update on them and post pics as thier health gets better.

also if more then 1 is a male i will have to find him a new home as i am seriously lacking space but will not let him go untill his health reaches 100%.

kali
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1.3 Leopard Gecko's
1.0 mali uromastyx

this is the worst of the 3,skinny and dehydrated

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1.3 Leopard Gecko's
1.0 mali uromastyx
0.0.3 tokay's(adults unsexed)

this one isnt as bad as the 1st but still skinny but active and defensive

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1.3 Leopard Gecko's
1.0 mali uromastyx
0.0.3 tokay's(adults unsexed)

this one is the better of the 3,he will defenitly survive

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1.3 Leopard Gecko's
1.0 mali uromastyx
0.0.3 tokay's(adults unsexed)

Good luck with those guys. Tokays are hardy, I wouldnt be surprised if they recover and fatten up quite quickly. Great thing you did for those guys....maybe you can fatten them up and train them to bite the owner

I think the last two will make it-the first one very lilkely will die.
A feces check quite likely will reveal some worms. I´d give them Panacur anyway-at least twice.

Good luck

Ingo

Sorry to sound like a jackass, but your really not "rescuing" anything. You are supporting the store, and encouraging them to order and mistreat more animals all over again. If you really want to save something, its best not to buy anything and call your local humane center or someplace similar, and let them handle it.

Good luck with them anyhow,

M.N

i understand that but it would have haunted me if i didnt help them.
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1.3 Leopard Gecko's
1.0 mali uromastyx
0.0.3 tokay's(adults unsexed)

This is an interesting thread to me. I try to not go into pet stores, unless I know they have healthy stock--that includes fish stores. I do feel that patronizing them at all encourages them to stay in business. But last week we went into a LPS (my kids and me) to buy some crickets. My daughter looked at the fish tanks and the herps and was horrified. There were dead anoles, dead and emaciated tree frogs, skeletal tokays, dead fire-bellied toads, floating fish, ichy fish, fish getting eaten by other fish.....She wanted to rescue everything. I tried to tell her it would be a losing battle, cost money we dont' have, take room we don't have, etc. But I did feel bad for the animals. I think I'll try calling the Humane Society, although it seems somewhat political in this town. I won't buy crickets there again......

Jan

Actually I've even been to reptile shows and seen some pretty sorry specimens--LOTS of them--dark and shriveled. So it isn't just pet stores who are guilty. It's entirely possible they arrived in that condition in terrible conditions of stress and malnutrition from being wild captured.

Mine was in terrible shape when I bought mine in a store. but she is fat and healthy, and quite happy. In fact I'm quite attached to my tokay, and she has become tame and seems to enjoy attention and would care less if I held her. (which is handy for terrarium cleaning). I think it's amusing that she likes to lick me when my hand is near. I think that is a universal lizard greeting and not just "tasting".

Whether or not the person purchased the tokays will *NOT* stop the pet industry from aquiring new ones. But that individual who rescued those tokays will make them a lot happier than simply ignoring them and let them suffer.

I think it's great that person adopted them!

Madame JadeFox

The only thing which really helps is breeding tokays.
But sadly too many people prefer a big cheap wild caught tokay over a healthy cb juvenile, which may be slightly more expensive.
At least to me its not easy to sell more than 20 cb tokays a year.

Ci@o

Ingo

I agree with ingo. I've been producing some great cb Tokays all year and are not able to find good homes. All my babies have been handled regularly and are in great health. I get alot of inquiries only to hear later that wc tokays were purchased in poor health at local pet stores. I guess the cost of shipping a low priced, healthy, welled cared for Tokay just isnt attractive.
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My posts and replies are my experiences only
1.2.10 Tokays
1.4.10 Leos(13 albino)
1.2.0 AFT's(amel male)
0.2.0 Stenodactylus Petrii(Dune Geckos)

Oh I agree! cb is far better, but even in reptile shows I rarely see them. That is sad considering tokays are not too difficult to breed. Almost entirely I see wild captured--very stressed, starving, sick, and gnerally parasitized

Miss Jade Fox

..and presented in small plastic boxes, where they are stressed to death.
And still people do buy more of these then of my c.b. half grown tokays presented in small but furnished enclosures on the next desk.
frustrating

Ingo

Actually I've even been to reptile shows and seen some pretty sorry specimens--LOTS of them--dark and shriveled. So it isn't just pet stores who are guilty. It's entirely possible they arrived in that condition in terrible conditions of stress and malnutrition from being wild captured.

-I never said anything on breeders or shows. I know there are good stores out there, but the majority of chain stores arent.

Mine was in terrible shape when I bought mine in a store. but she is fat and healthy, and quite happy. In fact I'm quite attached to my tokay, and she has become tame and seems to enjoy attention and would care less if I held her. (which is handy for terrarium cleaning). I think it's amusing that she likes to lick me when my hand is near. I think that is a universal lizard greeting and not just "tasting".

-If it was in terrible shape, why buy it? The store will just end up ordering more in filling in that space, and will continue to mistreat more animals.

Whether or not the person purchased the tokays will *NOT* stop the pet industry from aquiring new ones.

-Yes, it will stop them. Whats the point in having a store if no one buys anything? Your saying that the store will continue to run if its deserted? By buying the tokay, your letting the store continue with their business.

But that individual who rescued those tokays will make them a lot happier than simply ignoring them and let them suffer.

-Sure, for THOSE tokays. What happens after they reorder another into the store? Will you be buying those aswell? Why put other tokays into misery when you can just stop buying altogether by ignoring them in the first place.

Buy healthy ones from a breeder. Saves you time and money, plus you wont be supporting that stores business.

M.N

What I am saying is that reptile shows TOO are guilty of selling very horrible looking specimens of tokays. Sick and shriveled and all dark. Just as bad as the ones in the stores. I have seen them myself.

>-I never said anything on breeders or shows. I know there are >good stores out there, but the majority of chain stores arent.

>-If it was in terrible shape, why buy it? The store will just >end up ordering more in filling in that space, and will >continue to mistreat more animals.

True, but she turned out to be a sweetheart and is very healthy now. A resilient lizard--with lots of love and care, even a horrible looking tokay can and WILL bloosom into a healthy beauty.

>Buy healthy ones from a breeder. Saves you time and money, plus >you wont be supporting that stores business

I agree, and wish more people would purchase them from a breeder.

JadeFox

That is very nice of you to adopt the animals-they DO have feelings. My tokay had a broken arm which mended crooked, an injured snout (all from being mauled by the other tokays), and didn't look good at all.

But today she is fat and healthy, and in fact has become a very sweet lizard who enjoys attention, does not bite, and will sometimes even come to you when you talk to her like a baby. One of her arms is still crooked and the skin above on the elbow appears bald (just plain pink skin, nothing over it) but she can walk on it fine.

I enjoy her very much. Though I keep her in a 20 gallon tank, she won't leave it (yes I left the top off and forgot to put it back on a few times). I guess she feels secure in there. And won't leave unless I get her out of there, which is no big deal and gives me an easy way of cleaning up her tank.

Sometimes when you get weak animals-they turn out to be the most satisfying pets.

Perhaps the tokay is simply grateful to have her own pad.

But she won't eat unless she's handfed. Nonetheless, she's a sweetheart.

Keep us posted how your pets are doing! I'm sure they will recover.

JadeFox

Call the ASPCA or local humane society. The people who work for these organizations care about all animals not just cats and dogs. They know what legal action can be taken. Although you may have saved these tokay's lives today, the shop is going to order more and because they are "just tokays" they are going to treat them the same way and still make money. Establishments like these should be shut down and they can be, all it takes is a couple of phone calls. In an earlier thread I told of an experience that I had with my local petstore, one phone call was all it took. The humane society first asked me what should be expected of the store owners and then went and told them. The next week everything changed, and if in your case it doesn't change call that week and the next and the next. If there are enough complaints criminal charges can be presented.

i've never dealt with a tokay so its quite a nice change to have a reptile that will tear your fingers off just for entering the cage....really i wanted a slightly harder reptiles other than the leopards,iguana's and uromastyx which have been all great animals and taught me so much,i re-did the whole cage and put down eco earth and filled it with fake plants and i could tell it was appreciated by them as they quickly noticed and went into hiding.

i think even the runt will survive,he was the 1st one to eat and took down about 10LG crickets in a few min while the other two ate about the same. they all drink and eat and thier poop isnt runny so i think the outlook of the situation looks good.

i'll keep updated on things and make sure pics will be taken as they get better...

kali
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1.3 Leopard Gecko's
1.0 mali uromastyx
0.0.3 tokay's(adults unsexed)

im going to contact the ASPCA to see what we can do,its not the 1st store that has gotten crap from me,petco fears me when i walk in,every employee that works the reptile deparment has seen me raise hell thier due to thier lack of experience or just plain ignorance to thier animals,i walked in thier armed with my digital camera and in front of everyone started taking shots of thier dying animals and thier horrid enclosures.my girlfriend(this is her screen name but i post 99% of the time)tore the manager a new a$$ about their reptiles as i educated thier staff who probly didnt care anyways.this will be just another store who gets it where they deserve it and i have all the time in the world to do this......they way i look at it is let me put you in a small bathroom,lock the door and turn on a light and put food and water in when i feel like it and change your cage when i have time and see how you like it...you wouldnt so dont do to anything else you wouldnt want done to you......thanks again

kali
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1.3 Leopard Gecko's
1.0 mali uromastyx
0.0.3 tokay's(adults unsexed)

Maybe in time your tokays will lose their aggressiveness. Mine has lost all of her aggressiveness, and she's cool with me petting and handling her. In fact will turn dark if I ignore her! she's a sweetie. Although she has hiding places, she rarely goes in them. she mostly clings to the glass all out in the open.
She will on occasion JUMP on me (take a leap right on my arm)-at first it scared me-but now it's like nothing and I just take her out and talk to her. and she licks me instead of bites. Then again she does not recognize food unless I handfeed her. so I guess that's why she trusts me so.

Bottom line if they lose fear of you (and that takes months), they won't bite. At least that was the case for mine. And mine *was* a wild captured specimen.

Give them time to recouperate and acclimate to their new home. I'm sure even the very dehydrated one will get well. But I would put it in a separate place until it gets well so it won't have to compete with food (and mostly lose).

Mist the terrarium daily.

Keep them comfortable and they will get nice fat and healthy

Miss JadeFox

thier tempermant doesnt really bother me,if it was me and they where picking me up,damn right thier would be a battle so i look at it through thier eyes....."umm big thing coming near"....."get ready to attack men".

about a seperate cage,i wish i could i had to kick my leo out his 40G breeder to a 10G so i could place them,ive read its not enough room but its all i have, at the moment all i have is 40g breeders untill my sister gets her rack system. but even then i not getting anything with hieght.

i know for christmas ill get gift cards to petsmart and i know they have a tall tank thier just for reptiles and thats probly what ill end up getting.

thanks anyways,

kali
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1.3 Leopard Gecko's
1.0 mali uromastyx
0.0.3 tokay's(adults unsexed)