Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In responce to your post on 11-21 regarding Bengalensis Nebulosus, there are a couple replies that I feel you should read.

Sorry for calling you an idiot...I just really got irritated by your responce. This species is especially close to my heart, and I would be really upset to find out that one suffered because of poor advice.

How you responded demonstrates why so many of your posts got removed. I have actual experience living for over 6 months outdoors in that area of the world, dont ever tell me it doesnt get below freezing, I lived outdoors there, not in a building, I slept on the ground etc etc.
You may make your comments as you please in America because its your right, I fought for your right and your freedom to do so, your welcome Michelle. This is a sensitive issue to me.
Dont tell someone else they are spouting off and telling lies when you dont know.

This isnt the first time youve fabricated the "truth". So I suppose researches who have spent years in the field know less than you do...

It is possible you are speaking of the mountainous ranges, but Nebulosus does NOT live there. The point was Nebulosus, so dont pretend to be knwlgedgable on something youre not. That was my point.

LOL Children can't we just behave????

Anyways talk monitors not about wars, or if it is cold there or not. Does it get cold where they are found well yes and no. It gets cold there yes, but are they found in the locations where it is that cold?

I know it gets cold there, when it does they go under ground. They come up the next day never feeling that cold temp.

So wasn't the question is offering cold temps. for hibernation needed?? Why not stick with the questions at hand.

Here is a site that suggests they do hibernate there Bengalensis and have reproduced them. http://asianreptiles.tripod.com/varanus.htm check it out or don't. Whatever suits you but lets be civilized.

Im behaving...honest!

"It gets cold there yes, but are they found in the locations where it is that cold?"

No they are not found in these locals. You must keep in mind that were not merely saying Bengal, but V.B.Nebulosus. A much more specific question. That was what the person who posted the original inquiry was asking about.

So there!

That Bengal pic that they have is SCARY!!!! Thanks for the link though, they should be interesting people to talk to...

You need to get your head on straight, LOUD little girl.

Just because you've picked a monitor species as your favorite, does NOT make you instant armchair expert on the species, and the mouthpiece of knowledge on that species. I don't care if you've read 99.9% of the printed literature known to mankind on said species, YOU DON'T KNOW!
Not even Mark, who probably HAS read 99.9% of literature known to mankind on EVERY species, doesn't say he knows better than everyone else. There's much not known yet about varanids for many reasons. Why don't you spend some of your righteous energy looking into how varanids are studied, and how written reports might be lacking or not getting the whole picture. Maybe then you wouldn't consider something you READ about bengalensis as the gospel, and yourself an appointed preacher, here to set everyone straight.
As for you reading about where they are from, and SHvar actually BEING THERE, congratulations, I now think you're an idiot. With a lot of nerve.

AND, what really irks me, is that SHvar spends mucho time and energy responding to new people who otherwise would go ignored, and he does so politely and consistantly. LONG before you,(and I), decided monitor forums were a fun thing. For that reason alone, regardless of whether he is correct 100% of the time, he deserves respect, if you disagree with him. I think he has earned the right to be treated nicely, just as he treats others.

Oh yes, this is the 'mean people' forum, where you don't think its so fun. Aww, shucks, opposing points of view aren't welcome when they aren't presented NICELY, aren't they? I wish you had remembered your manners when replying to SHvar. He's too polite to thump you.
D.

My favorite thing to say

Just as I did INITIALLY, tou too have now stooped to giving in to an emotional rebuttle. How irionic.

Hahahaha!

You should really take the time to understand before opening your mouth, or cocking your tail!

Shvar...
He claimed to have knowledge on a species that he didnt. He wasnt there to research varanids. He was there fighting a war. Just because he observed a particular climate doesnt meant that this species was present there. This post of yours is silly because not anywhere do you adress the issue that started this whole "tif". Youve merely jumped in because a few offensive words were thrown out on the table, which, by the way I had appologised for long ago. Were all prone to reacting with emotion, and yes I was guilty as such, but that doesnt/ dint prevent me from retracting the statement. If you all were so intent on staying on the subject of varanus you would say something like, "SHvar shouldn be yelled at because in 1992 Dr. So and so found a Nebulosus emurging from a burrow, and the air temp was read at 38 F." Since this information has not been documented thus far, you all really havent much to say.

Best Regards,
Michelle

Outside of Jeff, Jody, and I, nobody else who has added anything to this post that is even related to data on this species. Instead they have just gone on about feelings, wording and interpersonal dynamics. Its ok to spew sillyness if you do so politley? Hahahaha. Really now.

Dont respond to this, I really dont want to go further into the wrong direction wiht this thread. Just think about it.

You mentioned that subjection of Bengals (neb. or whatever) to those low temps would make them suffer or kill them. Do you have first hand experience with this over a long period of time? Have you experiemented and given they a wide range of options and seen what they have chosen? Here's what you can do to test this. Get a large group of them, and keep them in multiple enclosures. Offer one or more groups of them the temps you suggested, then offer others a choice of temps. Have a basking, ambient, but offer a low of aroung 55-60 degrees. I can almost guarantee that there will be some that will choose those lower temps at some time of the year. Then you suggest that they don't burrow. Offer them something that they can recognize and I can also almost guarantee that they will burrow. That is the same thing people have suggested about other monitor species and were proven wrong when the animals were given choices. It's about options and letting them choose what they want from that range of options. I have offered the option of a lower low temp for the last 2 months with my Griseus. I have a basking, ambient gradient, and a low spot of about 57-60 degrees. They have chosen to stay in the 57-60 degree part, in their burrow, for the last month and a half, and they are very much alive. Now, forced hibernation is a whole different matter. This I believe is not good for monitors, and I can bet that is what killed my first one. When monitors are given a wide range of options, you'de be surprised what they choose. You'll find out that saying "they don't do this..." will be proven wrong very quickly -Jeff

Very valid points about options, and this topic has been discussed in deapth numerous times. Options are an integral part of successful monitor husbandry, this cannot be denied. I havent seen Nebulosus in a captive environment that allowed for such, and it is from field research, and captive care at the zoo, that I get my information on their behaviour/ adaptations. From these studies you will conclude that animals have adaptations to different regions, and subjecting an animal such as Nebulosus to 30 degree F temps, as suggested earlier is not something that would be benificial to this animal. They do not need to burrow in their natuaral environment. They havent the environemntal conditions that encourage this sort of adaptation. Not to say that they wouldnt dig in captivity if given the dirt, but in the wild this behaviour hasnt been observed.

Heck, maybe if you took this tropical residing critter out of its natural habitat, put it in a box with a few feet of dirt and leaflitter, a temp variant of 50F- 150F, it would use it to a degree of sucess. I havent seen this, or heard of it being done. Whta I do know is how they are successful in the wild, and there, they havent had exposure to these extremes, and personally I would be leary to subject them to such low temps.

Michelle

Nice critters! ...but you already knew that, you were just fishin for compliments! No shame!

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Link

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Greg
www.imageevent.com/gmherps

I think too much advice is given based on what people have read or heard instead of actual experience.

Youre familure with the phrase "better safe than sorry", right? I think that perhaps by understanding how animals behave in the wild(especially for less understood species), it will be easier to avoid failure. However it requires a balance of learned and applied knowledge(observation). Youll be hardpressed to find people who have done both. Theres usually a dividng line between the "observers" and the "doers". I think you will agree that this has been the cause of much debate in the recent months. All we have to do is bridge the gap. Its already clear, the amount of sucess that has been demonstrated by those who have already "gone there". As pointed out before, in order to be successful in the field, you must have a strong foundation of knowledge to work off. Likewise, it is my opinion, that a good understanding of whats going on out in the field, will lead to a greater understanding and appreciation of our captives. Its indeed a multideminsional subject, and if anything, openmindeness and a little sweat, will bring us to a new level of "understanding" and "achievement". ...and dare I suggest harmony?? Hahahaha!!!!

~Michelle

I will use you as an example.
You said they don't burrow. How do you know? If it is based on something you read about wild animals, say so.
To say that they don't burrow is a broad statement. As broad as Shvar saying they can withstand freezing temps.
Beccari, dumeril's, rudi's etc. aren't supposed to burrow either, but they do in captivity. They can also withstand temperatures below 50f.
I know, because I keep them.

I did say so...

Quoted word for word from my respnce to Jeff.

I can't tell if you like to talk about monitors more, or enjoy keeping them? Nothing you've said so far is from experience. When you're dealing with opinions vs. first hand experience, wouldn't the wise path be to realize that you don't know everything?? You can still think what you want, no one is saying that... just for "god's" sake, this is getting ridiculous.

then again, maybe i'm wrong on all acounts and you just prefer to argue??

hasta,
J