Reptile & Amphibian Forums

np

Simple a "normal" looking animal carrying the gene for a morph. Such as albino/pied/axanthic.
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

Technically "het" means heterozygous which indicates that for whatever trait you are talking about the snake has an unmatched pair of genes (usually one normal and one mutant).

With recessive mutations the hets are normal looking but if you remember the genetic definition of the term you will be able to keep things strait when working with co-dominant and completely dominant mutations where the hets are not normal looking.

Rick's description was MUCH more appropriate for a "newbie" (no offense toward our new friend intended). Being "technically" correct is not always better, you know.

Not sure I follow the "new friend" reference.

Even though Rick's definition is very popular it still isn't right (no offence to Rick, I’ve seen this definition used by many). I believe that people would be less confused as co-dominant and dominant mutations become more common if they learned the correct definition to start with.

Go ahead and show off your large genetic vocabulary to new people. They stop listening about the time you start explaining what you think is so important for them to hear.

That's okay though. You are free to do what you like, just that others of us aren't so hung up on being 100% correct all the time. Good thing, too, since we are all wrong so often!

What in the world are you talking about "large genetic vocabulary"? Randy answered the question correctly and simply. Heterozygous means the two genes at a specific location are different from each other. Homozygous means that the two genes at a specific location are identical to each other. You can't get any simpler then that. Young children all over the world are taught this in basic science classes every year. If you didn't know this, you should be kicking yourself for not paying better attention in school instead of mouthing off to someone who is giving a good definition.

Mark

>>Go ahead and show off your large genetic vocabulary to new people. They stop listening about the time you start explaining what you think is so important for them to hear.
>>
>>That's okay though. You are free to do what you like, just that others of us aren't so hung up on being 100% correct all the time. Good thing, too, since we are all wrong so often!

Now that was so easy. Well put.
My problem was that a het meant Normal looking. Pastels are hets too! But they are not correctly sold or thought of or called the proper name. They should be called 100% het for super pastels. Just like a het albino bred to a normal = 50% het for albino. The pastel bred to a normal gives you 50% het for super pastel. The difference is you can tell what a super pastel het is - you can not in an albino het. I answered the question wrong to begin with. I was dealing with just the non visual hets and not the visual hets. BTW - I must have missed that in class. I must have been on one of those band trips. Was there known pastels and albino reptiles back 40 + years ago?
Thanks for the clarification.

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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

het

e Hete, v. t. & i. [imp. & p. p. Hete, later Het.] Variant of Hote. [Obs.]

But one avow to greate God I hete. --Chaucer.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

het

adj : made warm or hot; "a heated swimming pool"; "wiped his heated-up face with a large bandana"; (`het' is a dialectal variant of `heated' as in "he was all het up and sweaty" [syn: heated, heated up, het up]

Remember - You are what you eat....I eat ham

When someone says the snake is pastel het for albino is that wrong? Should it say double het for albino super pastels? Does that make sense? Is there a website that defines these hybrids?
Another thought a pastel is het for super pastels-correct? But they do not look normal [the pastels] I may be wrong in my original explanation but I think that the person was looking at all the posts about xxxx X xxxx and the word het being used. Is their a scientific definition for ALL hets? I love to learn all I can.
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

I realize my rants are on the dry side and expect most will not bother to read them but just in case there are a few who are interested I'll keep it up. I've only had high school biology and I'm sure I make plenty of mistakes but I don't think I'm talking about anything that anyone couldn't understand if they where just interested.

"When someone says the snake is pastel het for albino is that wrong?"

Sounds good to me. You just need to remember that "pastel" is referring to the snakes appearance (phenotype) and "het for albino" to some of its genes (genotype).

"Should it say double het for albino super pastels?"

I know people don't usually use that description but it does have the appeal of being consistent in describing the genotype for both mutations rather than mixing genotype and phenotype descriptions. You still need to know the inheritance of the pastel mutation to figure out what the snake looks like (and with the first description you would need to know this to figure out the probably genotypes of it's offspring).

"Is there a website that defines these hybrids?"

I don't think "hybrid" is the right word here. These are all pure ball pythons, just combinations of different mutant genes. I'm not sure what websites there are that might give specific examples of breedings using this gene combination. However, if you just think of it as a double het you can follow the same rules to predict the genotype of the offspring of any double het breeding. Then you need to consider the mutation type to figure out what the phenotypes will be (i.e. the het super pastels will be pastels and not normal looking).

"Another thought a pastel is het for super pastels-correct? But they do not look normal [the pastels]"

Exactly, but by thinking of its genotype (het super pastel) it may make it easier to predict its offspring's genotypes using the same rules as for any het.

"I may be wrong in my original explanation but I think that the person was looking at all the posts about xxxx X xxxx and the word het being used."

Since most everyone in this hobby is only using "het" to describe carriers of recessive mutations you are probably right as to what the original poster was asking about and your answer would be accurate for those recessive mutations.

"Is their a scientific definition for ALL hets?"

Paul's answer is more complete than mine and of course as always technically correct.

"I love to learn all I can."

I wish I would get off my butt and learn more about genetics but that doesn't stop me from trying to help where I can. If some aren't interested in going beyond the limited and sometimes incorrect usage of genetics terms and ideas currently found in our hobby that is their prerogative. Maybe some day ball python genetics will be complicated enough that a little extra knowledge will have real world breeding applications and not just be academic. I used to breed calico Syrian hamsters and found it to be a profitable little niche because I suspect many hamster breeders have trouble with the three gene combo including one recessive, one dominant, and one sex linked mutation necessary to produce them. The information on how to do it is out there and really isn’t that hard to understand, it’s just that apparently many don’t care to learn it. Maybe there will be profitable niches in the ball python hobby for those with better understanding of their genes.

Genes come in pairs. If the two genes in the pair are the same, the individual is homozygous. If the two genes in the pair are not the same, the individual is heterozygous.

If heterozygous individuals (with a normal gene and a mutant gene) look normal, then the mutant gene is recessive to the normal gene. For example, albino is a recessive mutant gene.

If heterozygous individuals (with a normal gene and a mutant gene) look like an individual that is homozygous for the mutant gene, then the mutant gene is dominant to the normal gene. There isn't a really good example of a dominant mutant gene in ball pythons yet; spider may turn out to be the first.

If all heterozygous individuals (with a normal gene and a mutant gene) look like neither the homozygous normal individual nor the homozygous mutant individual, then the mutant gene is codominant to the normal gene. For example, pastel is a codominant mutant gene.

Persons who say that looking normal is part of the definition of "heterozygous" are wrong. Looking normal when heterozygous is the definition of a recessive mutant gene. It tends to get included in the definition of "heterozygous" because there are many more recessive mutant genes than dominant or codominant mutant genes. Many snake species have so few mutant genes known (so far) that NO dominant or codominant mutants have turned up.

Paul Hollander