Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Yes, I've just found out the difference in prices... Rediculous, well for me atleast, I'm poor. I saw a spider for $45, 000! My budget is as much as I'm willing to save up. But I'm horrible at saving money partially because I'm not very patient and secondly, beacuase it would take a lifetime to save up for the things I want. Anyways, I've decided my favorite morph is 'Clown'. What's the price for those? I've also got a few more general questions... If I use an online breeder, wouldn't it be more expensive, if so, how much more? Also, I'd like to get the snake within my next 2 or 3 pay-cheques. That should provide me with anywhere from $300 to $600... That will be the money for everything the snake needs including the snake itself. What would you reccommend? I've seen prices for almost all of the snakes except 'Clown'. And if 'Clown' is over 200 it looks like I'm going to have to just get a normal Ball... And I'm fine with that. Should I get a normal Ball online too? And, if I were to use an online breeder would I for sure get my desired sex? Another question; How long does it take to have them shipped from the breeder? And last but not least... Do you know any good online breeders? Please try and answer as much as you can. THANKS SO MUCH...

Clowns are defintitely beautiful and they have a pricetag to prove it. You can find clowns from anywhere between $9k-12k. If you have your heart set on a ball python, normals are what I would recommend with your budget. All ball pythons are great animals and you won't be dissapointed. You can find online breeders throughout this site. Im sure some of them would love to help you out. Good Luck
PG EXOTICS

why in the heck would you want a morph as a first ball python? if you just want to get a morph, go to the kingsnake classifieds. many normals that are being sold as morphs (pick any normal out, they will say high-gold, majaveish, blushing etc..) those are within your price range and youd have the pleasure of calling it a morph (cause thats what you bought it as)

all kidding aside...

Get a normal (get a female, incase you wanna breed later on). If you really want to get into morphs and breeding, start with a pastel (co-dom trait) you will get your money back the first season you breed hopefully.

many normals that are being sold as morphs (pick any normal out, they will say high-gold, majaveish, blushing etc..) those are within your price range and youd have the pleasure of calling it a morph (cause thats what you bought it as)

Ahhhh...out of the mouths of babes!

First of all, I've never seen anyone try to say that "blushing" is a morph. It's a descriptor. If you order a "blushing" bp, and it arrives with solid black areas, I think you'd have just as much of a beef with the guy as if you received a normal instead of the albino you ordered. Sure, the money's different...but false advertising is false advertising.

Second, high-gold IS a morph. It is genetic, it has been proven, and it is reliable. It doesn't fetch a high premium, due to its high availability. Are albino burms not morphs now that they are affordable? If you think so, then I don't see your logic. blackbacks, granites, classic jungles, etc...ALL MORPHS. We need to find a new word for the expensive stuff, because too many people JUST DON'T GET IT!

Get a normal (get a female, incase you wanna breed later on).

I wasn't aware that male bp's don't have anything to do with breeding! I'd better go give mine away, then!

If you really want to get into morphs and breeding, start with a pastel (co-dom trait) you will get your money back the first season you breed hopefully.

Better yet, why don't you get whatever you like. If you have questions for us, fire away! Don't short-change the "normals" though. No two are alike, and I think my normals are every bit as beautiful as morphs I see (just not quite as unique as, say, a hypo-mojave!). Work with Pastels if you like them, not because someone else said that is where you should start. Being a domininant trait is what will bring the price down. With everybody "starting" breeding those, 1/2 of the morph ads are for pastels. They are starting to look to me like they are relatively, for lack of a better word, "normal"!

MOST IMPORTANTLY, HAVE FUN WITH YOUR NEW SNAKE, WHATEVER IT TURNS OUT TO BE! I'M SURE IT WILL BE ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS! AND, IF YOU ARE ABLE TO DO SO, PLEASE POST A PIC SO WE CAN SEE IT. I LOVE SEEING EVERYBODY'S PICS. HERE'S ONE OF MINE (SHE IS A CLASSIC JUNGLE, A MORPH THAT FITS WITHIN YOUR BUDGET. THE YELLOWS ARE MUCH BRIGHTER THAN NORMALS SHOW).

okay, why did i say get a female ball first??? If he does keep good care of it and decides to breed her later on, she might al ready be breeding weight. If you knew anything it takes longer to get females to breeding weight that males.

and i still stand by my remark about KS classifieds. i seen a guy selling a normal male bp, selling it as a "high gold"...funny how my normal female looks exactly like that one. but i paid 50 bucks for mine, and not 500$ as advertised to the classifieds. Look for your self they are they : wanna be breeders trying to get a quick buck for describing a normal as blushing...high gold etc... they arent worth but 100 (females) and they are trying to get top dollar.

okay, why did i say get a female ball first???

I didn't ask...i know why you said it, though you really didn't bother telling the person you were saying it to why you thought it was a good idea.

If you knew anything it takes longer to get females to breeding weight that males.

Did I hit a nerve? You jumped right to the attack here. Interesting...if YOU knew anything about business, or the herping business in particular, you wouldn't have said half of the things you did.

i seen a guy selling a normal male bp, selling it as a "high gold"...

*ignoring horrible grammar* I go through the classifieds daily, and have done so for a long time. I cannot recall EVER seeing anyone try to sell a high-gold for an unreasonable price. At one time, I thought the way you do. Then I actually learned a thing or two about the snakes and went out and saw some high-golds and yellows and classic jungles and granites and blackbacks and ringers. Now, I have some of them. They ARE spectacular, albeit not as eye-catching as a spider or an albino or what-have-you. What makes you qualified to judge what is "normal" and what is a "morph"? You looked over a few websites? You read some books? Have you ever even SEEN a high-gold? Have you photographed one? Are you aware of the difference in color picked up by the camera compared to what one would see by the naked eye? Personally, I think Axanthics are way overpriced for something that doesn't grow up to be all that spectacular. I know there are lots and lots of people who would disagree with me, and they would pay the price being asked. I would never tell any of them (or the breeders they buy from) that they are being ripped off (or that they were ripping people off), mainly because I have no business trying to tell someone what the subjective value of anything could be! "Normal" bp's along with the "normal" morphs, are incredibly UNDERpriced. When you consider the small clutch size and cost of keeping and breeding bp's, the cost of a normal CBB ball python should REALLY be around $300. Thanks to the continual rape of Africa's grasslands and the subsequent import-flooded market, the price has been driven way down. You should be thankful that you COULD get a normal for $50.

funny how my normal female looks exactly like that one. but i paid 50 bucks for mine, and not 500$ as advertised to the classifieds.

Okay, bud. Put your snake where your mouth is. Go to a show. Take your normal bp with you. Challenge one of these guys to show you the difference between theirs and yours. You'll be leaving that show early, with your tail between your legs. It's funny how often I hear people claim that their normal is "exactly like" my classic jungle, my high gold, and my granite UNTIL they put the two side-by-side!

Look for your self they are they : wanna be breeders trying to get a quick buck for describing a normal as blushing...high gold etc... they arent worth but 100 (females) and they are trying to get top dollar.

Okay, so I get some "normal" bp's with different coloration and/or pattern than the norm. I breed some of them. I hatch several babies that look like their unique parents. It's genetic! I put them on the market. I don't know what they're worth, so I low-ball it. I charge the same price as my normals. The thing is, they sell like hot-cakes! Next year, I sell them for about 25% more, and they sell out quickly again! Woo-hoo! So this goes on and on until I find the price that the market will bear without having to hold onto my inventory longer than I want to. Great! I'm happy...my customers are happy...life is good! Then JAMISON comes along. Not only does he not have ANY recognizable qualifications (other than owning A ball python), he thinks that his opinion of WHAT IS/ISN'T a morph holds water and that HE (of all people) should be the one setting the prices! And he's incredibly cynical. JAMISON knows everything though. "The genetic pattern/color mutation I've found isn't worth anything," he says. "My normal looks just like that." My reply: "thanks for sharing. Good bye now, little guy!" The point: the people you are talking about have solid reputations. They are not "scammers" trying to make a quick buck. A few of them have devoted their lives to breeding, while others can only afford to moonlight and can only devote 100% of their free time to their projects. I would dare you to try to tell these guys TO THEIR FACE that they are scammers and wanna-be breeders! You don't get it (and probably never will), but you are just plain wrong here! Not only do you erroneously feel that you are qualified to judge the genetics of morphs, you also fail to see why your opinion of these snakes' value really doesn't matter much. If the market wasn't there, that price would never last! If your normal truly does look just like the snakes in these ads, maybe you got a good deal. But, in reality, I really think you owe hardworking breeders that make an honest living by supplying bp's to their customers a BIG apology!

my bad, it wasnt a high gold...i take that back. its even worse than a highgold and going more than one. My BP still looks like a highgold, and i paid 50 bucks for her.
See for yourself

Yup...I sort of thought you were talking about Rob...probably not a good idea to point him out like that, though. Just a thought. He has lots of good feedback on the BOI, and I've met a few of his happy cusotmers. You might not think the snake is worth $500, but he is certainly not a "scammer".

Now I look at this animal, and I think "that's pretty! I've never seen so much white-in-black in a "normal" before!" That's what blushing is, and THAT snake has a lot of blushing. I can't see where he is lying or trying to cheat anyone here.

Would I pay $500 for it? Nope.

Does that mean it isn't worth that much? Not unless nobody is willing to pay that much!

I don't buy from Rob, though it has nothing to do with reputation or quality of his animals. It's a microeconomic decision we make based upon our values and needs. He charges a premium price for his premium-looking CH animals. There's nothing wrong with that; it's just that I prefer CBB and if I'm going to buy CH, I expect to pay a "bulk" price and hand-pick my own (a.k.a. "cherry-pick" at the lower price!

He could keep them and try to prove them out, like some other breeders (those you probably feel are more worthy of your respect), but he chooses to weed out the special animals and pass them on to others with a tidy little profit for himself. He's in a position where he can look at many shipments before anyone else, and has developed a reputation and customer base for himself. That, in the business world, is called "LEVERAGING YOUR RESOURCES". It's simply good business sense! He fills a need in the market, which is vital to the continued success of the industry.

I'd have problems with him (as a business owner) if he were charging LESS than he could get for his animals. Business owners who minimize their profits are soon-to-be FORMER business owners! I suspect that many in this hobby forget that breeders, importers, retailers, etc. are ALL businesses! They aren't here to try to make sure you can get what you want for "bargain" prices, they are here to try to make a living!

Bargains ARE out there, but it will be rare for you to find them on the classifieds here (at least with normals)! I find them all the time, but it takes some leg-work (EVERYTHING has its price, after all). Many of my prettiest "bargains" came from a local store that was preparing to move, and was willing to let animals go at lower prices in order to save on packing and transporting time/energy/space/money/etc. (in other words, we both felt that the price paid was worth the transaction for each of our own reasons). Others came from another local store that had no clue what they had (I know the owners, and I KNOW that if they knew they could charge more then they would)! The way I see it, a business owner who doesn't fully understand and appreciate the value of EVERYTHING they sell does NOT deserve to make any money!

Someone who wants some pretty normals and doesn't want to go out and spend the time looking for the bargain (or, perhaps, lives in an area where there aren't many places to buy a bp) would do well to contact Rob. I suspect that these types of people are his main customers. There's nothing wrong with that! He's a good guy, and his animals are ALWAYS top-notch healthwise and looks-wise. Perhaps you just haven't looked at it this way.

Happy turkey day, Jamison. Hope you and yours are safe and happy. Talk to you soon!

If I use an online breeder, wouldn't it be more expensive, if so, how much more?

Hard to say without knowing your OTHER option. I doubt another option exists, unless you live near a breeder. Its not like you can go to the pet store and get a Clown. There are reptile expos, but going through a breeder privately will yield the best price, for sure.

Not going to get a clown for $600. Actually, not even going to get a clown for $6,000!

Get a cage set up (numerous care sheets around. Too many to count), calibrate the proper thermal gradient, and away you go!

Balls rule!

In the price range up to $600, you are going to find normals(including high-orange, reduced patterns, etc), het albinos, het ghosts, and possible hets of many other morphs.
Shipping will vary with the breeder. The best way to ship is via Delta Dash, or another comparable service. This is shipping in a heated airplane, from the breeders closest airport, to your closest airport. It only takes flight time, so is very fast and reliable, but you have to be there to meet your shipment.
Some people ship FedEx, UPS, or USPS. It is illegal, last I heard, to ship snakes through the US mail. UPS and FedEx both have policies against it, and will not do it knowingly. This leaves you with no recourse if your snake dies in transit while using one of those services.
A reliable breeder will make sure you get the gender of snake you want. Pet stores typically have employees that don't really know anything about snakes, but like to act like they do. Many people have gotten very bad advice from pet store employees.
There are many very respectable online breeders. I would suggest you try to find one in your area first. IMO, it is silly to pay $70 for shipping(Delta Dash), if you are only paying $80 for the snake itself. Here are some breeders I have either done business with, or would not hesitate to do business with:

www.snakemorphs.com
www.ballpython.com
www.bobclark.com
www.ralphdavisreptiles.com
www.alanboschreptiles.com
www.grazianireptiles.com

Check these folks out, but there are LOTS of great people to do business with besides them, as well.
Good luck!
Randy
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Randy
www.ball-pythons.net

yes, pet store's suck. a dude said i should start feeding him rabbits when my ball reaches 6 1/2 feet.

what a douche.

hahaha
man some pet store employee's know nothing!!!!
rabits!!!
that guy has probly never even seen a full grown BP!

I picked up a 50% chance het clown hatchling male for $150 last year and he is now ready to breed. Of course you would have trouble also finding a ready to breed even normal female within your price range. Maybe you could get a yearling female and a possible het clown hatchling male within your budget if you shop around carefully and perhaps have both ready to breed for 2005. Then you just need to get lucky enough to hit on the 50% chance het male and produce some het daughters and you could be producing clowns as early as 2007.

Patience and luck, the last hope for the budget morph fancier...