Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi: can anyone point to a good site on Imitator egg developement. I believe I have a clutch of fertile ones and I am starting to see some developement. I wanted to compare it to something-preferably pictures with numbers of days to completion. thanks-Maggie

tor's page has a bunch of info like this. here is a link to some info on developing imitator eggs/tads

http://natures-web.org/fg/dev/imit.htm

congrats on the good eggs!

Hi: Thanks! I looked there and there is quite a bit of info but it didn't give how long each stage should take. Any ideas where this info might be located? My eggs look like they're "deviding"? Thanks-Maggie

thats cool that they are developing, you got the frogs as adults, right? my imitator are breeding, but are new to it... so they haven't gotten it quite right yet. all my eggs have been infertile, so i couldn't tell you a time frame myself and don't know of any sites with this info. you might check some dart books... i was hoping someone else would add more info, as i would like to know this info as well. good luck with the eggs, and please post any info you find. thanks. - jon

Hi Jon: Yeah, they were adults from Tor Linbo. Even as Adults, their first clutch in this tank was not fertile. They have bred successfully before according to Tor, but I think they still had to figure out house keeping in THIS tank. other things I did that seemed to make a difference to my observations is this:

1. adding different sized broms-intially, there were only the larger or medium sized broms in the the 33 gal tank. The male would call and call but no response from the female. Then I added one very small brom(6 in and smaller)-the kind you get from BJ(flowering at small sizes). Then she'd lay the eggs. But he did not fertilize them.

2. Adding different kinds of broms at the small size-then, I place a Fireball in the tank with the stiffer leaves. Placement was highest in the tank at 45 degree angle, and immediately, she and he began the mating ritual. She refused to let him mate until she was certain of this brom and its ability to serve the needs of her clutch it seemed(she thouroughly explored it first).

My thinking is that the larger broms don't offer any security as they seem to like to tuck into a little space(perhaps this is a way the little Imitators took advantage of their small size to hide from preditors or beat out competition from larger frogs?). Yet the leaf structure has to be stiff enough and wide enough to form enough of a pool of water. The flowering brom was not stiff enough or leaves wide enough, but they liked the security so the Fireball was a winner.

By the way, how many eggs did yours lay per clutch? Thanks-Maggie

hey maggie-

sorry for the delay, i was at a basketball game tonight, and have been out all pretty much all day.

I have a couple broms in their tank, one rather large brom and one smaller one (which has grown larger since the tank was set up). i may try to add a smaller one (my fireballs have grown pretty big in my tanks, are you using a smaller pup?) and see what happens. they court on the big brom all the time, and have laid on there twice. they also laid once on the smaller bromelaids. both of mine have stiff leaves, and i think they do like this. i have the room for another small brom... so whats the harm, i will give it a try. i have a fireball with several pups growing off it anyways. the size of the clutches are as follow; 1st = 4 eggs, 2nd = 2 eggs, 3rd = 2.5 eggs (one real tiny egg that wasn't really a complete egg). what is your clutch, and how long did it take to divide? also, you have just a pair of a group, and in what size tank?

thanks- jon

Hi again Jon-its good to know what others have tried and found to be true as well. The first clutch only had a measly 2 eggs. Perfectly formed, but almost too perfect. I mean, they just stayed like that, no change until the gelly part got cloudy. Hey how does the gelly part look on a good egg-Does it ever change? The 2nd clutch was 3 eggs and they were laid this last monday(6 days now). On day 3 I saw a dark welt or a horizonal indentation(I think-I'm nearsighted)begin to form accross the center of each egg. Day 4 and 5 this receided a bit and other indentations began to form going the other direction(its so small though, I hope I'm not imagining things). Well, I'd like to say I had a trio(which I did, at the laying of the first clutch-but the passive male escaped!). This was of no difference to them it seemed as they laid this next clutch just a week after. Let me know more of your experiences as you have them. thanks-I hope you have a good clutch soon. My female did her thing, but the male seem to only figure it this last time.

Regards, Maggie

hey- good eggs' jelly remains clear, and ones that don't develope start to turn cloudy as the egg breaksdown i guess... or thats what my bad eggs have done. sorry to hear about the jail breaker.. really stinks. at least it wasn't the female. thanks, i hope i get some more eggs soon as well... but i haven't been feeding and misting as much for the last week so they haven't been doing much, but i am going to start misting more. hope everything goes right with the eggs and you have some extra little jewels around the house.

I have 2 good eggs developing myself.I can't tell you for sure but probably about 2 weeks.I have raised quite a few tads but I had been letting the male transport the tads to brom axils and then I would take them out and raise them.I recently had to cut a tad out of it's egg case and it is doing fine.Good luck and the next time I see eggs,which should be soon, I will see for sure how long it takes them to develop.
Good luck,
Mark W.

Hey-thanks for sharing your experience. May I ask, how long did it take between each clutch was laid? Why did you have to cut the tad out? WHen do you think i should see the eyes and the tail? Should the gelly part remain clear at all times? How closely did the male watch the clutch? I'm surprised it takes these little guys so long! My FBT always only took 4 days to immerge! Thanks-Maggie

Hi,
OK,If they are cranking them out I usually get a 2 egg clutch every 10days.On the tad, it had lost it's gills and I was sorta worried it would not cut itself out so I did it.Yes, the jelly stays clear throughout the incubation period.I'd say you should see eyes and the tail in about 4 days if you can see that the egg has divided,just a guess pretty much.My male checks up on the eggs but doesn't it there guarding them as far as I can see.
Mark W.

well then, I do not think this clutch was fertile. UGGGG! No developments since the divisions I first saw. But...the love birds have just laid another clutch of 3 and I discovered an earlier clutch I had not seen before. Now, it seems they are laying in EVERY size broms. Why does not the amorous male do the fertilization thing? Do I need to get another male? Thanks Maggie

If they are a young pair I would just give them time.I'd soon start checking brom axils, film canisters,or whatever you have in you viv.Mine seems to like to hide the eggs then I started checking out the broms and saw the tads.My first few months with mine were crazy.Laying behind the background of their first tank drove me crazy but he always delivered the tads to a brom for me to collect them so it wasn't too bad.At least I knew they were happy with how I had their tank set up.You will have fun with them.If your not into rasining a bunch to sell or trade I'd let them raise one in a brom axil until it morphs out.I did last summer and it was awesome.
Good luck,
Mark W.