Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hello my name is jackie.iahve seen your work it looks very nice. i know from reading your site you are a cabinet maker.it shows from your posts.i myself am a wood working hobbyist i have a small shop.mostly for my cage building i have used mostly melamine and one made from pine plywood never used birch or oak plywood. but since all the death and destruction in the middle east i have noticed plywood prices are up since the post war construction over there.i bought and tried using laminated pine in various sizes it works great super strong and light my current project is a cage that is a 3 level cage furniture grade when it's done i"ll post a pic.but anyway i have been reading for the last few yrs this pvc and differnt types of plastic caging stuff now that since i use wood and you also when i build my work i use alot of dado and other joints for strength. but general i stay away from butt joints there is no strength there thats what from the looks of it most of these plastic cages are with glue. except vision and neo's mold made but over time and from movement would'nt this glue loose it's bonding ablity and these cages fall apart? thanks for reading

Hi Jackie,

Well glad to see another woodworking person among us here .When i build cages that are going to be bulit complete i sue a few different methods Depending on the the desired look the person wants.I use dado's Biscuits,Dowels & the Kreg system jointery.
Dado's are by far the strongest and also the most complex joint to complete in large woods sizes due to the tooling used . Dowels are secong due to needing the correct tooling to align them all w/o a slipup ($5k-7k for the boring machine alone which is neumatic and bores both verticle & horizontal)Then Biscuits can be be aeasy setup with just proper align ment as there forgiving if you are off L-R due to the blade is oversized and allows for the biscuit to swell with the glue. Both Dowels & Biscuits can be just as strong as a dado or other "Mortised jointery" when everything is clean and glued with a proper glue. The Kreg system is used in alot of shops noedays for joinging faceframes & sometimes in boxes for cabinets depending on the desired look.This system is a angled counter bore that uses washer head screws that can be set in the counter bore to be hidden They also make a variety of wood plugs in which to fill the counter bore thus leaving the screws unseen and with this i like the fact that if you use say Maple plywood and use cherry plugs you get a very unique look on the finished product much like a old style pegged look and when using different woods together really give the product a very unique appearance.

As to the Plastic cages nowmade i really cant give alot of feedback on long term durability as i dont own any of them . I do know that the "standard method" uses a heat welded plastic rods that are thermily fused much like stick welding. i would think that with proper preperation of the surface that this can be a longterm strong welded joint.I would say for Overall use & appearance that the plastic cages appeal for mny reasons.
Shipping is cheaper , cleaning IMHO is the same with a properly made wood cage and the fact that Plastic cages are 1/3 or so the cost of a quailty wood cage is appealing to most as well as the weight which is far lighter.But i must admit.. lol i biased as i work with wood for aliving so to me nothing beats a well made well put together wood cage. If itsdone right it will be around for MANY MANY years of use and can look just as good as the day it was bought. And to me Plastic cages will always look like a plastic cage no matter how well built it is . I have yet to see any plasticcage builder that can make a cage , habitat that looks like it was truely made for the house or buisness and will never have the charm & style of a well built wooden enclosure. While a plastic setup can look sleek and cool in your herp room its still a plastic cage when its in the living room. While a wooden setup can look all those thing in the herproom and be a masterpeice in the living room.I have been working on some new desings lately since cabinet work has slowed down alot and have comeup with some IMO very cool concepts in wooden cages that are built as entertainment centers with all the perks of a nice custom entertainment center to house TV, steroes, cd,DVD etc etc along with a very nice enclosure in the bottom as the base . maybe ill scan a few in and see if i can post them next week ...
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Rather than laminated pine? I've used edge-glued pine panels for non-reptile projects and have found them suseptible to warping.

As far as plastic cages, I'd add that in the hands of an experienced builder the welds (whether they be solvent or thermal) make for "one-piece" joints that are stronger than than the material used.

How experienced some of the builders supplying plastic cages are is another question. Plastics are tricky and have a steep learning curve.

Also, look up the specs on both laminated plywood and the various plastics used in herp cages. I think you'll be surprised to find that the weight savings are not that great unless 1/4" plastic is used. But with 1/4" plastic you often get a flimsy cage and one that has poor puncture resistance.

I'd hate for a picture to fall of the wall and liberate some of my snakes...

Lastly, many plastics do not allow the use of all types of disinfectants. PVC, ABS, styrene, and acrylic can all crack when exposed to different types of typical disinfectants. Some of these plastic also warp when exposed to temperature differentials.

I don't have a list of what combinations do not work. The info is out there if you look for it.

Lastly, plastic cannot be refinished as easily as wood if it gets scratched up or damaged.

I'm still excited about plastics and think that expanded PVC has a lot of potential applications but there are downfalls.

yes you can call it edge glued pine. cause it is .but i have been working with that type of lumber for yrs only thing i can think of is that you got bad product when you bought it or you did'nt seal or stain it right i have never had a problem workin with that lumber. but the way it is fabricated it will cup on you the way the joints run but that material is strong and very light.best of luck to you if you use it in the future.by the way what are you keeping

I could have very well bought an inferior product the few times I tried edge-glued pine panels. Given I've used yellow pine for face frames, etc., with little trouble I suppose the panels should be fine.

I'm only keeping Gonyosoma oxycephala at the moment. I have 9 of them and plan to get more.

Some people don't know what these are. Here's a picture.

somebodys been eating a blue lollypop i see. how much do those run, what do they eat? how big do they get?

Here in the states imports sell for about $35 to $50. Sometimes a bit more.

Every few years gravid imports will come in and lay fertile eggs. The babies from these run $75 to $100.

On the rare occasion that a true captive bred baby is available the prices are about the same.

Imports are fairly difficult. A good friend of mine gets to handpick from the primary importer of this species and he and I still have some mortality. I've even had specimens that were doing fine and eating for several months go into a bad shed and die.

They eat mice or young rats fairly well.

Gonyosoma oxycephala is a slender species that averages about 6'. I do have one specimen that is probably over 7'.

They are very fast and difficult to handle. They are also very aggressive.

A worthwhile species to work with if you like fast and aggressive snakes. There are some available now through the classifieds. I believe Exotics R Us and a seller names Korn have them.

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how much do those run, what do they eat? how big do they get?

This may not be a popular comment on this board but I have to pipe in about the importation of wild-caught snakes. While I'm sure you take good care of your animals and care about the well being of herps in general...supporting the wild-caught pet industry is HUGELy harmful to ecosystems and biodiversity. The wild caught pet trade is essentially a pillage operation. For each live animal that makes it to its country of destination dozens or even hundreds may have died! I'm sorry if I'm coming off as preachy, but as a biologist and professional naturalist, I feel this needs to be addressed. We do not not have the right to rape wild populations of animals simply because we think they are interesting.

lol thats the coolest pattern I've ever seen

yeah I'm foolish lol, beautiful snake by the way!
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The following sentence is true.
The above sentence is false.

4.4 Leopard Geckos
1.0 Marbled Gecko
1.1 Red Eared Sliders
0.2 Siamese Mice

As others mentioned, the joint gluing for plastic caging is a weld of sorts, and it is as strong or stronger than the plastic panels being glued. No problem there.

It is relatively easy to repair a plastic cages made from expanded PVC or HDPS. In each case, you cut a piece to cover a crack or hole, use the proper solvent-adhesive, and there you go. Done. Fixed.

Plastic caging is for function, not beauty. There is no better material for smaller, humidity-loving boids than the various plastics used in caging. My favorite is HDPS (high-density polystyrene, ala herpcages.com and precisioncaging.com) and ABS (ala Neodesha). HDPS especially is ultra-light and very strong, even the .125" thk panels are incredibly strong and resistant to warping from heat.

One of the challenges is to make a plastic cage large enough for the larger boas and pythons. Vision and Neodesha have done it, but at high cost. Here is where the wood cage becomes attractive, because you can have it sized to fit your area and the animal type (i.e. taller for carpet pythons, longer for retics) and the material cost is much less.

Plastic does break down over time, but in the realm of herps, it will probably outlast any animal. I have a piece of ABS from Neodesha. It has been outside as a bunny-hutch roof for 5 years. I can stand on it and kick it and it doesn't crack. 5 years of sun and temp changes. That is darn tough.