Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hi im just wondering if the bali retic is considered a true dwarf morph
i read the past posts and see that the jampea females max out at around 10-12ft and htey are considered dwarfs,
a reptile store near me has a bali juv and says they max out at 10 and weigh about 25lbs when full grwon. is this true?
wahts their tmeprement

Hello,

I have a pair of CB 2003 bali yellowheads and they have good temperments. Most wild caught balis do not. I don't think that the balis can be considered true dwarfs. I hear people say that they can reach 16 feet and larger, but don't know myself. I look forward to raising them to find out. The parents of mine are 12-13 feet for the female, and about 7 for the male. Good luck with yours if you decide to get it.

Jeff

I keep hearing that these are dwarfs. They are in NO way a dwarf Retic. Telling people a snake is a dwarf these days means sales. I have 1.2 Bali Yellow Head retics. A 6yr old 10 1/2ft male that came to me skinny because it's last owners though they would keep him real small by feeding him less. He should be atleast another 2-3ft long. My females are smaller only 5-6ft and 6-7ft. All of these retics are supposedly c.b.b. I do not know for sure so my guess is C.H. Regardless my male is as calm as they come along with my 6-7ft female. The smaller female is a total psycho but that's ok with me. I've seen a 16ft pair of Bali's, and i've heard of a 20ft female. From what I understand 18ft seems to be the adult size (although like anything there are exceptions). Now They are a smaller local as 18ft still isn't a 20 some odd foot normal, and they are much slimmer in size then a normal not carrying around all the weight. Personally I see my females reaching between 14-16ft but we will see. The smaller female eats 3X the larger one! One of the reasons why people thought these are dwarfs because I don't believe any Bali retics were found in bali over the size of about 9ft. You have to realize that Bali is a heavly populated area and it's very possible that every snake that gets up to size is killed as you know how it is in those type of environments. All and All are they smaller retics? Yes they are a smaller local of retics but not near dwarf size. They do have a slimmer build and If bought as babies or C.B.B. they can calm down. Most think they are all psycho which isn't true as mostly w.c. Bali Retics are still around, C.B. is still pretty new. Notah Howe has c.b.b. Bali Retics for sale and I'm awear of 2 other breeders that have also bred them in the past 1 of which sold their adult pair. Another thing I've noticed is that Notah Howe's babies are real light in color not like the typical looking darker Bali. My smaller female looks like one he produced while my other two look like typical Bali's (Dark black outline on bluish silver sides with a yellow/golden color head). I'm anxious to see how big my females grow up to be and to see how big Notah Howe's babies get. Alot more info on them and their size will be avaiable in the next 2-3yrs or sooner. I'm actually debating letting my females grow up 2 more yrs before trying to breed them to get a better look at adult size. Breeding snakes usually results in a snake not to grow as large. Who knows we shall see. I've done Tons of research and this is what I've come up with. They are my favorite retic (I like them more then ALBINO'S!). What a pleasure to work with! I hope I've answered some questions for you and if you'd like any other info feel free to e-mail me.
John
Elapids@hotmail.com

thnaxx for the info-good to hear from a real keeper rather than just dealers-how heavy would u say ur male is-is he too much for one person to handle?
where did u purchase ur retics?
im still thinking about getting one-but still going to do all the research i can before i make the final decision.
hey they gotta be good if u like them more than albinos.
laters
jim

My male is not to much to handle actually. I take him out all the time by myself without people home and so on. For retics I believe 10 1/2ft may be to much for one person if it was normal but these do have a smaller build. He is weighing in at 20 lbs about. Still a bit skinny but he's gaining weight nicely. He's actually around 33-35lbs with all the jumbo rats in him lol. I purchased my male off of a guy on kingsnake that had it for approx 6yrs. It was his personal pet and I got him only because it was to much for his wife to handle alone when he went on business trips. I'm about 6'1 6'2 and put up around 300lbs weight lifting so to me it's easy to lug him around and not worry about anything. For someone smaller who knows He's been very calm. Retics do have a very strong feeding response and as calm as they are in their cage they will still lash out and try and bite. I just take a shirt and put it in front of his head and grab him no prob, then everything stops! My females I purchased through some friends (James and Anja). I think the yellow head retics are by far the prettiest of them all. I'm still waiting to see if NERD hatchs some sulwesi's because if they do I may be picking up a pair. I only want the ones like the one on their site with the crazy silver sides as I love that look. Males aren't much trouble to deal with and I've yet to deal with an adult. I have experence with larger retics and a 16ft normal is something I wouldn't mess with alone no matter how calm it appears to be. They are big and can be unpredictable so you never no. They love water! I have nice large rubbermaids in their enclosures and they will all sit in the water for extended periods of time. Keep the questions comming if you'd like I love these animals so much!
John
Elapids@hotmail.com
If you'd like give me a call and we can talk further
(954) 752-6105

thnaxx for the info-good to hear from a real keeper rather than just dealers-how heavy would u say ur male is-is he too much for one person to handle?
where did u purchase ur retics?
im still thinking about getting one-but still going to do all the research i can before i make the final decision.
hey they gotta be good if u like them more than albinos.
laters
jim

hey thanks again for all the info-this def seems like a snake i would want-u have any pics? would love to see them-been wanting a retic for a while-maybe its time to get one-kno of any good breeders who have them at a reasonable price, i understand they are more expensive than regulars,
my email is jm91982@yahoo.com
tty soon
jim

Contact Notah and talk to him, he's the only one producing true Captive born and bred Bali retics, his email is nhherp@aol.com

If you'd really like to learn who else you'll go through the archive. One of the guys bred them before Notah Howe, but sold his pair earlier this year. The other guy has also sold his trio. Right now there are two places to get C.B.B. Bali Yellow Head Retics. You can go to DnJ reptiles and have one imported (c.b.b. in indo), or you can have one c.b.b. here in the states from notah howe. From the folks I have spoke with Notah Howe has some real nice looking babies. His line of Bali's are real light in color, With some Luck I'll have some c.b.b. bali's avaiable next year with a much darker coloration more typical of them.
John
P.S. I need to pick up a pair from Mr. Howe, Christmas time kills ya money wise though.

Please, if they are born in Indo, you cannot call them CBB, you can call them captive born, or farm hatched, because thats what they are. Also bali's are known for a light silver color, and yellow pastel heads. Who are the other people that have bred bali's stateside?? Why haven't they told the public?? You would think if someone produced a locale for the first time, they would at least advertise this. I'm just curious why your the only guy that has ever heard of other people producing bali's first.

No Indo Is not what I'm refering to. Actually Bali's are known for a dark black outline on silver sides with a nice yellow head. Notah Howe's are like no other Bali. Myself and a few others I've spoken too all say the same. I lost the e-mail of the one guy that bred them in 00-01 I believe it was.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=229984,229984

That is the link to the beginning of the thread. J.D. of Puget Sound Reptiles has bred Bali Yellow Head Retics State Side. You don't hear about alot because some private breeders aren't into all the glory. Maybe I did more research then other people in finding out the truth. Sure Notah Howe is the main guy known because he posted them on kingsnake. Just because someone doesn't say something doesn't mean it hasn't been done. For example MorphKingReptiles: No one knew who they were or what they had. One year they come out with TONS of morph Ball Pythons and Everyone was like What, Who? They are a great company and I just wanted to use them in this forinstance. Just because you or someone else doesn't know about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
John

Please, if they are born in Indo, you cannot call them CBB, you can call them captive born, or farm hatched, because thats what they are. Also bali's are known for a light silver color, and yellow pastel heads. Who are the other people that have bred bali's stateside?? Why haven't they told the public?? You would think if someone produced a locale for the first time, they would at least advertise this. I'm just curious why your the only guy that has ever heard of other people producing bali's first.

Not to ruffle feathers or nothing but this is realy based on speculation more than fact.... and this I belive is why...

You know it is almost impossible to say with any real certanty if most of the locale specific animals in the country are legit. It is not only exporters from Indonesia and importers in the us who may find it easier to make a little extra cash by saying Dwarf, but the collectors themselfs who may bend the truth allitle. These people do know that there is a demand for certain animals and will use it to there advantage. Say a reputable breeder gets them and sells true CB offspring as such and such it realy seals the deal. Not to mention Joe Schmoo who might be stuck with a crappy Y/H and finds himself stretching the truth a little to make a sale. This phenominon is quiet common as with all of the DWARF and Psudodwarf animals, plus most sought after locales. So be very careful what you belive. I have been offered quiet a few Bali Y/H retics in the past most of them were offered as CB, and yet nobody could tell me who breed them. One person did say he bought his from Clark. Personaly I never did buy any of the animals because of the fact most likly they are not Bali animals. At least the Jampeanus aniamls are highly distinctive. With that said even Notah told me he found his breeder in a Pet store of some sort wich does raise even more questions. IMO they are the real deal after obtaining a few, however ive never been to Bali, so who knows? If I ever get there ill have to check out Herpafauna indo and see for myself if they are actualy breeding them or just hatching them there. Either way, it is almost impossible to say if Puget sound reptiles produced pure bali, bali crosses, or maybe they were just thai animals? Hopefuly sombody will do the reserch and see if Bali animals can be clssified, so that we can have reliable scale counts and other fingerprints of the locale. Anyway thats Just a few thoughts Ive had, feel free to disregaurd this post as it is mostly a conspiracy theory, however I would still advise caution... - Shaun D

Shawn I agree 110%! This is the main problem with green tree pythons as well! Who knows if I have true bali's, who knows if Pugent Sounds were real and who knows if Notah Howe's are legit?! I do plan on buying some from herpafauna as those are going to be as legit as it gets. As far as this size of Notah's and mine They are pretty close to the size of a full grown bali as described by herpafauna. Who knows for sure? As far as I'm concerned I have smaller Yellow Heads sold to me as bali's but Myself and no other will ever know for sure.
John
Good Thing to point out! *gives props to Shawn!*

Notah found his breeder yellowhead female, in a petstore, not his female Bali. And all I was trying to say is I have never seen really dark bali's, 99% of the fresh imports straight from Bali, are light silver, with nice light silver highlights, and light pastel yellowheads, looking very consistant with Notah's balis. I'm not in no way saying dark ones don't exist, because they probably do, not every animal looks the same, I would just be VERY cautious, about who I was buying from, its easy to label almost any light yellowhead as a bali.

I have imported about 100 Bali Yellowheads from Bali, Indonesia. Some are dark, some are light all were not very friendly. I don't think that I could look at a yellowhead retic and place a locality on it based on its color. I may be able to say that it looks very similar to the ones that I have seen, but not put a locality on it. Bottom line, the locality data is usually very unreliable unless you collect them yourself. The only reason I believe that the Balis I imported were legit, was because the exporter lives in Bali. It would have been more trouble for him to get animals from another place. Anyway, hope this helps some.
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