Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was asked by the owner of the reptile shop I work at, to bring home a baby RE and see if I can't nurse it back to health. UNFORTUNATELY (and I know... big tsk tsk) I'm not able to take the little bugger into the vet. (Having to get our house rewired and brought up to code has me VERY low on funds)There are a couple tiny little brown/red dots on it's top lip and a couple around the shin area of it's one back leg. I spoke to the vet that the shop owner uses and he suggested giving the baby a bath in tetraciclyne(sp) treated water. I just wanted to hear your thoughts on it and if you had an idea of the mix ratio. The frog is no more than 3/4 - 1 inch s/v and is currently in a 2 gallon hospital tank with clean potho clippings, paper towel and fresh water twice daily. I've been keeping it's temps a little higher than my other REs because it seems to encourage it to eat better. (When I watched them at the shop the other baby seemed to get to the food first and was always plumper) Since bringing this baby home it has been eating very well and looks nice and chubby and has been having normal BMs as far as I can tell. I just worry about those spots and possible bacterial infections. The other RE still at the shop doesn't seem to have been infected and I have since cleaned it's tank and gave it all new plants and such in hopes of preventing it getting these spots.

SO... What are your thoughts? Would the tetraciclyne be a good idea?

(Sorry I was so long winded LOL having a hard time organizing my thouhts today with a 3 year old climbing all over me and asking "what's that say?" "Who are you writting to?" LOL)
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Heather
The Gang (1.1.0 agalychnis callidryas, 0.2.0 bufo spinulosus, 4.0.0 osteopilus septentrionalis)

ellasmommie@yahoo.com

My hubby thought he was doing me a favore and just dropped off a bottle of Maracide rather than Tetraciclyne... is this the same? Is it safe to use on frogs?
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Heather
The Gang (1.1.0 agalychnis callidryas, 0.2.0 bufo spinulosus, 4.0.0 osteopilus septentrionalis)

ellasmommie@yahoo.com

I do not personally have any experience with using tetracycline on amphibians. I do have an opinion on tetracycline, as it is one of the most "abused "antibiotics around. I would be very apprehensive about using an antibiotic like this without knowing for sure if it is bacterial or fungal.

A simple search through google.com of "amphibian" and "tetracycline" yielded some very good results...
http://www.nap.edu/html/amphibian/nine.html
http://www.klsnet.com/sickamph.html

However, I also found some information that supports my concerns. I happen to personally know the author of this article and the Webmaster for the web site, and can speak to their credibility.

http://www.caudata.org/caudatecentral/articles/bloatEDK.html
"Many newt owners attempt to treat bloat with over the counter medications from pet stores. In the majority of these cases, the antibiotics may do more harm than good. The only currently available over the counter fish antibiotic that is commonly used for the treatment of amphibians is tetracycline. However, the majority of common amphibian pathogenic bacteria are resistant to tetracycline (Wright, 1996). "
"Most of the other common fish medications are also ineffective in treatment of amphibian disease due to the advent of widespread resistance and the fact that amphibian skin is only semipermeable at best to the antibiotic. This means that the antibiotic may not be able to reach therapeutic levels in the caudate's tissues. This only hastens the spread of antibiotic resistance. Many of the antibiotics that treat amphibian bacterial diseases are also potentially damaging to the kidneys if used improperly. "
He cites the Robert Wright book on amphibian medicine, which is what I would consult anyway but I keep that at work.
So you see yourself in a quandary, treating this individual at the expense of potentially breeding more resistant bacteria. You make the call. However, if the animal is feeding normally it hardly warrants an aggressive treatment with something that may give you marginal success anyway. My recommendations: move it into a larger tank, make sure it is well fed with lots of supplements, perhaps try to apply some triple antibiotic using a Q-tip.

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...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

I cannot thank you enough. I wasn't feeling too comfortable treating the little one without at least knowing what was wrong with it. Hubby brought home a small bottle of Maracide which has Malchite Green and Chitosan. I mixed a very diluted bottle of it and basically used it to mist the tank. I am going to continue simply offering fresh, clean water twice a day. It seems that the spots are a bit smaller today than they were last night. So maybe just clean, treated water will do more than blind medicating.

The little one does seem to be eating well, about 3 or 4 small crickets a night. then soak normally around the same time each night for about 15 - 20 mins. After each meal and soak the little bugger looks SO BEAUTIFUL!!! All nice and plump, bright brilliant colors... Simply RUBY RED eyes. I can't wait to get my camera back from the shop so I can show this little darlin off.

His/her activities seem quite normal as well. It doesn't seem as shy as my other two. I can litterally just lift out the potho clipping that it happens to be sleeping on, set it on the counter while I clean out the tank, put it back in and that little baby didn't even move. LOL I've been doing all this while it was a sleep so that I wouldn't have to worry about actual handling. But this afternoon, s/he was awake and just watched me clean the tank, not even moving to jump off the leaf it was sitting on. As soon as I put him/her back into the tank, it'll crawl around a bit, almost as if to see what I've changed, then just settle right back in and go back to sleep.

In the evenings he/she roams around alot, eats, soaks, sleeps.

SO... hopefully s/he will pull through and I'll be able to get it to grow large enough over the next couple months to be able to add him/her to the tank with my other two. Right now s/he is WAY too small and couple possibly get eaten by the other two. Besides, have to wait until the end of the quarentine anyway.
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Heather
The Gang (1.1.0 agalychnis callidryas, 0.2.0 bufo spinulosus, 4.0.0 osteopilus septentrionalis)

ellasmommie@yahoo.com

Usually raising the temperature and daily soaks in water treated with probiotics and electrolytes has worked well for me. I have treated large abrasions with Neosporin with success, especially on rubbed noses. I give any new, but weak frogs baths in this mixture as a preventative.

Can you provide any literature references (web or otherwise) on the use/need of probiotics? I am unfamiliar with this.
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...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

I don't know any specific references to the use of probiotics in reptiles and amphibians. I did it as an experiment since I have used them with other animals with success, especially horses. It seems to give a boost especially after being dewormed. So far there have been no ill effects, and there is one marketed fro reptiles from I think exo-terra, who makes the "mistimize," "biotize," ect.... water conditioners. I use a powdered form though and add it to the water when I am misting or soaking animals. I'll look and see if I can find any references related to herps though.