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This is a Hypo I produced this year and a New England Axanthic from Fengya animals. Both animals are 2003 hatch and females.

Keith

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Man, what are you doing with a gun in space? - Charles "Chick" Chapple

Nice looking snakes. will you have any unrelated axantic brooksis next year?

thanks,
john

Nope. My buddy might have some available and If I use his Axanthic female we will have hets to freshen the line and make it better color and pattern wise.

Keith
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Man, what are you doing with a gun in space? - Charles "Chick" Chapple

Cool Can you explain the difference between the new england strain axantic brooksi and the florida strain? are the axantics rare?

thanks,
john

I think you thinking of the "New England Strain" or NE Strain and the "Lemke Strain". They are compatible but occurred on their own the NE strain has been around longer but is less known up until several years ago. Lemke's Strain when they first arrived seem rare but thats because the Axanthic males had fertility problems and hets had to be used. NE's dont have the same fertility problems. The Lemke's seem to have gotten better as of late (the last 4 years or so) and thats probably due to outcrossing. The strains have been crossed and are known compatible so its the same gene at work. I think the main difference is pattern and color. The Lemkes hatch out bright blue and black with big fat side windows. The NE's have real thin crossbars and a more scrambled side pattern and the blue is duller. I also believe with the NE's higher quality Brooksi were used so the pattern reduction was a bit better and the adult color seems a brighter blue. I will say Ive seen some Lemke's with nice adult color but on avergae the NE's look better as adults. There is a anerythristic Florida King out there but I dont know anything about it except its quite ugly from the pics Ive seen.

Regards,

Keith
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Man, what are you doing with a gun in space? - Charles "Chick" Chapple

I question the statement about the N.E. strain having better fertility than the Lemke strain. I think in the beginning, the Lemke strain had it's moments, but I personally never had a single fertility problem with them. In 2000 I produced 47 babies from 2 Lemke females.

This year was the first year for my N.E. strain and results were not as satisfying. From a near 4' female, I only got 9 eggs. Of the 9 eggs, 6 were fertile and 1 hatched with sever spinal kinks. Carl Gilmore also said he had the same problem with his N.E. animals. I don't know if it was the first year for his pair, but we'll see what happens with mine in '04.

This season, I had over 30 axanthic from my Lemke animals.......and 2 of the females were hets. I don't know why others have had so many problems with the Lemke's........they've treated me well. I agree with you on the fact that some of each strain can look ok and some look awesome. I've seen some super N.E., but my Lemke's look better than my N.E. I've seen some other's N.E.s that smoke their Lemke's. It's one of those snakes you just have to raise up to see what you get. Kind of like green tree pythons.

Brandon

I question the statement about the N.E. strain having better fertility than the Lemke strain.

The problem was with the males and and not het males but Axanthic Males. Lloyd told me himself years ago that the male Axanthics were mostly duds and he used alot of het male on Axanthic female. Thats why the price stayed at 350 bucks for years. Brian Barcyzk and a few others also told me of these problems with the Lemke line.

In 2000 I produced 47 babies from 2 Lemke females.

How many Axanthic males sired your clutches ?

This year was the first year for my N.E. strain and results were not as satisfying. From a near 4' female, I only got 9 eggs. Of the 9 eggs, 6 were fertile and 1 hatched with sever spinal kinks.

First year breeders ? That seems like an average clutch for a first year breeder to me . You dont usually get 15+ eggs from younger females in my expirience.

Keith
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Man, what are you doing with a gun in space? - Charles "Chick" Chapple

The problem was with the males and and not het males but Axanthic Males. Lloyd told me himself years ago that the male Axanthics were mostly duds and he used alot of het male on Axanthic female. Thats why the price stayed at 350 bucks for years. Brian Barcyzk and a few others also told me of these problems with the Lemke line.

Brian bought all of my axanthics and hets the first year I produced them. I'm pretty sure, he got his hatchlings the same year I got mine. I purchases a male axanthic and a het female.

In 2000 I produced 47 babies from 2 Lemke females.

How many Axanthic males sired your clutches ?

I have never use a het male. I have always bred axanthic to het or axanthic to axanthic. I have 2 Lemke axanthic males that I used.......one from my first breeding that I held back, and actually bred to his sister and produce a totally viable clutch.

This year was the first year for my N.E. strain and results were not as satisfying. From a near 4' female, I only got 9 eggs. Of the 9 eggs, 6 were fertile and 1 hatched with sever spinal kinks.

First year breeders ? That seems like an average clutch for a first year breeder to me . You dont usually get 15 eggs from younger females in my expirience.

My first clutch of Lemke animals was 13 fertile eggs with a 100% hatch. The second clutch was 19 with a second seasonal clutch of 18 from my het female, and the first clutch from my '97 female axanthic was 10 and all 47 hatched. In my experience with (my) Lemke animals has shown an average clutch of 15.7 eggs, with an average fertility of 15 eggs. This is from a sample of 7 clutches, with a total of 110 eggs, 105 fertile eggs, and 105 healthy hatchlings. I'm not sure if cooling had anything to do with my fertility, but I've managed to have consistant cooling of 48-55* for 10-14 weeks every year. I probably just got lucky.

On a side note, my flame female, this year, laid a first clutch of 11 and a second of 12. In every instance of double clutching I've had, the second clutch is usually about 50-60% of the first. Again, all 33 eggs hatched.

This has been a good thread. I'd like to hear other's experience with axanthics. I personally haven't had too many problems with them and they are still my favorites.

Brandon

I think the axantics brooksis are beautifil snakes. I also like the white brooksi phase thats fairly new. are the axantic brooksi still high price wise?

thanks,
john

The average price for both strains of axanthic is around $100-125 ea. They are worth every penny too! Babies are drab and pretty much colorless, but adults are absolutely beautiful. You can't go wrong.

Brandon

Thanks

what types of kingsnakes do you breed? when mine are old enough in 2007 I plan on breeding some california kingsnakes and also some western hognoses.

john

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I think Brian had some Lemke's before he got some from you unless you sold him some around 1995-96 or so. Thats pretty good production out of your Axanthic group by the way ! Where did your NE's come from ?

p.s. Here is a pic of a 9 month old N.E. Axanthic male from 2000 I think.

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Keith Hillson

Man, what are you doing with a gun in space? - Charles "Chick" Chapple

Yeah, Brian got his around the same time I got mine, maybe the year after. He didn't produce any the first year, so he bought my surplus. I'm pretty sure he bred mostly to hypos to start producing the ghosts after that. As far as I know, he was the first to produce a ghost in '99 I think. I do know that Lloyd was also have production problems and didn't produce very many for a couple of years......didn't produce any one year. Like I said, I've been lucky.

I got my N.E. from Rainer in 2000 at the NRBE in Daytona. I'm hoping for better production this season, considering it was their first year.

Brandon

As some of you know I was a personal friend of Lloyd Lemkes and spent lots of time with him in the 80's. In 1991 and 1992 I was living on the east coast and I helped Lloyd at his table when he came to the Orlando Expo. He had large sub adult axanthics on his table that were marked $100 and no one paid them any interest.
I have been producing the Lemkes and New Englands for yrs and never had a problem with either one as far as fertility. But I did hear Lloyd was having trouble with his. I wonder what happened to those sub adults on Lloyds table back in 91?
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Don't write a check with your mouth that your ass can't cash.

He had the sub-adult axanthics on his table at the 92 Orlando expo. Just remembered because that was the year my friend and I got robbed in our hotel room by gun wielding bandits.
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Don't write a check with your mouth that your ass can't cash.

Rainer is Lloyd Lemke still around and does he have a website?
I was in Daytona this year and I kept my eyes open for suspcious people. Hate to hear that you was robbed in Orlando.

"Angel of Mercy you don't need no golden wing, The way you came to rescue heaven must be wacthing over me" Jonny Lang

thanks,
john

Well the robbery was a long time ago but certainly news got around about it at that expo.
We had a room on the ground floor by the pool at a hotel right next to the Radisson Towers and we left out sliding window unlocked. My friend and I were watching Goodfellas and in came three young black men with .45 autos. They pointed their guns at us and ordered us into the bathroom while they ransacked the room and got all of our spending money (cash)at about $3300 plus my freinds gold ring and rolex watch. Since that day I never go anywhere unarmed and I NEVER LEAVE DOORS UNLOCKED!duh!

BTW Lloyd Lemke was a huge breeder and pioneer of our herpetoculture. He brought a lot of new species into this country and was a wealth of information. He died a few years back of cancer. It came unexpectedly and fast as cancer usually does. You will see his name pop up when it comes to this hobby a lot.
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Don't write a check with your mouth that your ass can't cash.

Sorry, Brandon. No ground breaking info. from me. Just a couple questions.

As far as the different axanthic strains/lines. I thought you said you had a problem with a snow x axanthic producing all normals this year.

Also, which strain/line did I get from you this year and which strain is Steve Osborne known for working with?
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Martin Whalin

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld
My Email

A snow to a Axanthic should produce all Axanthics. If not then something is not right with the Snow Brooksi. Maybe there is a mis-communication on this. Steve Osborne works with Lemke Axanthics and he possibly has the ugliest Axanthic pictured on his website Ive ever seen. Not saying this as an insult it just is LOL.
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Keith Hillson

Man, what are you doing with a gun in space? - Charles "Chick" Chapple

Someone told me that Steve has two types of axanthics. Don't know if it's true or not, but I'll agree he does have the ugliest axanthic I've ever seen. His website states, hatchling are black and white........mine are all black and blue/purple. I did hatch out 3 normals from a clutch of snow to axanthic this year. The female snow was the striped one, which unfortunatly passed from unknown causes after laying. She was different looking than the other snows, and was a much darker lavender. She had no interest in letting my male snow breed her, so I put the axanthic male in with her. She could have been from the axanthic Fl. line. The other pair I have are from supposedly from Southern Reptiles(Chris Collauta) bloodline.

Brandon

I thought you got the trio from Ian Giandiowski(sp)?

Keith
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Keith Hillson

Man, what are you doing with a gun in space? - Charles "Chick" Chapple

I did, as well as my buddy in Fl. that has/had snows. They were traced back to Chris's animals. At least that's what Rick told me. Bob Fengya actually has/had one of Rick's snows on breeding loan, but hasn't been heard from until recently. I originally had 1.3, but one female passed during brumation the first year I tried cooling them. The second female passed this year just a couple of weeks after laying her first clutch. Both snakes appeared as healthy as they could be.

As for the snow breeding producing normals......I did put the female in with my hypo male to try for triple hets, but never saw any action. Those normals could possibly be tri-hets. She was super flighty and didn't want anything to breed her. The only male I saw locked up with her was one of my axanthics. I guess we'll see in a couple of years what the genetics are.

Brandon