Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The first day I got my DHL(Saturday the 31st) he ate 1 ant and 4 mealie beatles. Yesterday he didn't eat anything and I thought this might be because he was still full from the day before. But this morning he doesn't seem interested in the ants at all. I saw him kinda run towards it then stop and look at me. Maybe he isn't used to me enough to eat infront of me, but I don't want to leave the ant in there with him alone. How long do you think before he will get used to me enough to eat infront of me?

On to the poop question! He took his first dump with me this morning. I know for MOST reptiles a wet poo isn't very good. His poop did have the hard poop part and a white urate but surrounding the poop the sand was quite moist. I know with my Uromastyx(also housed with a sand substrate) and his poops don't leave the surrounding moisture. Any ideas on this?

Thanks!
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1.1 Eublepharis macularius
1.0 Uromastyx geryi
0.0.1 Phrynosoma platyrhinos
0.0.1 Kinosternon bauri

Today he again ate 4 mealie Beatles. I first offered him ants for about half of the day. He just looked at them and didn't try to eat them. When I dropped the mealie beatles in he ran right for them. Is it possible he doesn't like ants?
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1.1 Eublepharis macularius
1.0 Uromastyx geryi
0.0.1 Phrynosoma platyrhinos
0.0.1 Kinosternon bauri

Hi Karu,

I don't know the answer to your question about his feces, but I can take a guess at the ant question.

I would say that he probably has gotten used to a diet of the beetles. I assume that's what the dealer you bought him from was feeding him. Although HLs do eat beetles in the wild, their main diet is made up of ants. They actually probably need ants in their diet to stay healthy (although there have been reports on here that people have had some success raising them without ants). I think it's just likely that he has gotten used to eating the beetles, so he thinks of them as food, but doesn't recognize the ants as something to eat.

The other possibility is that he may not like the Florida species of harvester ant. While they may appear almost identical to other harvesters to us, there's no telling how they taste to an HL.

I would suggest trying two things: First, put some of the ants in the refrigerator (not the freezer!) and cool them down till they become inactive. Then add them to his tank (preferebly right in front of him) and see if he'll take them when they're either not moving, or when they are still moving slowly. Also, you might place a small order for some Western harvester ants (his native food), and see if he will eat those. You can get Western Harvester ants from Life Studies.

Either way, it would be best if you can get him to eat ants. It is probably healthier for him, and since you have so many nearby, cheaper for you.

:You are partly right about the "conditioned" response eating the mealy beatles. HLs will eat small beatles in the wild in the mid and late summer but they are not the same beatles. As for the ants, the Harvester ant, from the picture ID of Pogonomyrmex, the species in Florida may be different, but a "Pogo" is a "Pogo." I have worked with HLs on food preference studies and have tried 17 different Pogonomyrmex species and the HLs benefit from all "Pogos."

The high water content of the horned lizard scat is not a good sign. The HL is eliminating excess waer buildup in its system, probably from the mealy beatles. Your new task is to keep watch that the HL does not become dehydrated. HL scat should be dry and extremely light in weight. If there is to much moisture it is a dietary problem or a kidney/bladder problem. It still could be a left over from stress during wild collection and transportation. Keep an eye on the HL. Lester G. Milroy III

:OOPS! My bad! That is beetles, not beatles (as in John, Paul, George, and Ringo). Lester G. Milroy III

You are probably right about the ants, but I think it is still worth a try to order some Western Harvesters and see if he'll eat them. While the Florida Harvester is a Pogo, it is more distantly related to its congeners in the western US than any of them are to each other. P. badius probably split from the ancestral lineage of the North American Pogos long before the species west of the Mississippi speciated. It is very different in many aspects of its biology from other North American harvesters, including the presence of polymorphic workers (only found in P. badius and some South American spp.). Any two of the ~25 species in the West are going to be much more closely related (with one possible exception) to each other than any of them are to the Florida Harvester. So while any Pogo in the Western US is likely to be very similar to any other, this is not so nearly the case for P. badius. Also, P. badius's range does not overlap that of any HL species.

As I said, you are probably right, and his refusal to eat the ants is likely due to stress and habituation to the mealy beetles. I certainly hope you're right, because then I will be able to cut my own dependence on mail-order ants, if I can find some local colonies (I'm unfortunately at the very southern end of their range). However, given the known differences of P. badius compared to the various other North American species of Pogo with which the little fellow is likely to be familiar, it seems like a good idea to at least try a western species. And even if he does prefer a western species to P. badius, it might be possible to wean him from those onto the Florida species, once he's back to comfortably and regularly taking ants again.

Karu, I would still suggest that you try the refrigerator trick, and if that doesn't work, order some of the Western Harvesters. If he'll eat those, then try mixing in some of the Florida ants with the western ones and see if you can "trick" him into taking the Florida ants. This way you might be able to switch him over to those.

:That is a good point about the Pogos from Florida. Also, the food items for Pogos in Florida is a whole different class from Pogos weat of the Mississippi. Lester G. Milroy III

That's another good point about the Florida Harvesters. Their gut contents and even metabolites might be different enough to have an effect on the HL. While not an entirely scientfic test, if I can find some local harvesters, I'll do a comparative taste test myself just to see if I can tell a difference. Hey, if Ed Ricketts can lick a nudibranch to find out why nothing eats them, I can chew a few ants.

Karu, keep us posted on how he's doing. If you want, I can send you some of my ants. I get a shipment every a week, and if you'd rather not buy some just to try, I can send you a few. Maybe we can even trade a few, because I'd like to try the Florida species on my HLs to see if they'll eat them.

Well, no luck with ants again today. I went to the pet store after many tries trying to get him to eat ants. I got a doze small crickets. I put them all in his cage and he went insane. He was jumping of the stick in his cage to get the crickets. He was literally running at full speed around his cage eating the crickets.. I wish he was like this for ants But it's good he's eating stuff.
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1.1 Eublepharis macularius
1.0 Uromastyx geryi
0.0.1 Phrynosoma platyrhinos
0.0.1 Kinosternon bauri