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I recently set up a terrarium for some poison dart frogs. on a whim, i added some earthworms from the bait store (after i had feasted them on compost for a while to clean them out) and a colony of mushrooms sprung up also. with all these decomposers in there, there is absolutely no waste produced. all i add is fruitflies and water.

Has any one tried this kind of thing with snakes? i have a pair of cornsnakes that i would like to setup in an "ecosystem" terrarium. Some problems i'm running across include: increased amount of waste, difference in composition of snake waste, and finding a substrate that would facilitate the decomposition.

I'm sure any number of inverts and fungi would readily feast on the snake feces, but i'm having trouble finding something to decompose the urates. as i understand, the urates generally are broken down into nitrogen compounds (by bacteria, as in a fish tank filter) and then into elemental nitrogen by certain plants. Can the same bacteria in a fishtank thrive in a terrarium, or are there an entirely different set of mechanisms?

The substrate problem: Both of the decomposers in my frog tank love the same moist compost that the frogs require. But the idea of keeping my snakes on such a moist substrate makes me abit nervous. Granted, cornsnakes are incredibly hardy, but i've battled bellyrot in my girlfriend's snake before, and it wasn't pretty.

any ideas, suggestions, or nay-sayers? i'd love to hear from you.
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Edited on December 20, 2003 at 19:33:04 by phwyvern.

I'm skeptical. The idea sounds great for frogs with their prefered envroment but I'm not sure you will reproduce that with a corn snake.

Plants are the natural "decomposer" that comes to mind for nitrogen but I can't think of a plant that would also be corn snake friendly.

Maybe you could try this with Brazilian Rainbow Boas or some other high humidity type snake. Garter snakes would do very well in an enclosure just like your frog although they will eat the frogs.
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Wade's Weptiles & Wodents

I believe some Germans have experimented with this and had trouble getting it to work. Even for arboreal geckos that thrive in high humidity conditions. With those you don't have to worry as much about skin rot, etc. as the animals rarely come in contact with the moist surfaces.

I agree that very few snake species would lend themselves to this. Even if the the species thrived in the conditions they tend to produce large stools on a less frequent basis. Obviously, it would be easier for microbes to deal with fecal matter and urates if it were spread throughout the cage (like with arboreal geckos).

I'm sure this has been done with the truely aquatic snakes (Tentactled, Elephant Trunk, etc.). But there you just use powerful pumps and filters.

I'm writing this feeling like I'm a naysayer. That is not my intention. Just relaying the problems that I'm aware of.

I am by no means an expert and submit myself to criticism and correction, but here is my understanding. If you need more info regarding the concepts, ask and I shall provide.

BAM... you are a proud new owner of a pet snake. It's only natural to try and house it in it's own environment. Big problem though:

Acording to the law of nature, the higer up in the food change an organism is, is the more supporting organism that are required to maintain homeostasis. Snakes are mid-top level predators. The problem is that as you go down the pyramid, the number of organism on each level increases significantly. A snake is towards the top, yet the worms/microbes/plants are towards the VERY bottom and a quite substantial quantity of them would need to be maintained just to even keep one snake.

From what I am aware of, snake fecal matter is very dense, due to their efficiency and it takes a long time to decompose. It's decomposed by microbes and plants. For a true 'vivarium' you would require a rather large amount of space... possibly 10X10ft for just one snake(corn)... possibly much more

Liken snake feces to a log... very dense and dry and tough to decompose. After a while it begins to pile up.

I am very interested in this topic and if you ever did manage to accomplish such a wonderous feat, I'd hope you share your joy with us. I've always wanted to play 'GoD' and watch my own homegrown nature concoction thrive right in front of me.

Frogs really are the simplest for this... they don't compete with the decomposers like the mainly carnivorous/insectivorious herps.
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-Iman

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Hope it helps...