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Victor: agar agar

lele Dec 03, 2003 04:12 PM

I was just going thru some missed posts and wanted to reply to your ?? about the moisture munchies. 2 TBLs of agar and water fills an 8"sq pan about half way - so it's a lot! I never paid attention to how long it lasts, but it would depend on how many crix you're raising. The guy's site also discusses adding some things to it for nutrition but I haven't tried it yet. it is very easy to make and can be ready in less than 1/2 hour from mixing to cooling.

hope this helps!

lele
-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

Replies (17)

compasscreek Dec 03, 2003 04:41 PM

dennis

lele Dec 03, 2003 06:20 PM

ha-ha! just kidding. There have been recent threads about the use of this in place of easy water/polymers for giving moisture to feeder insects. I had given Victor the link to Moisture Munchies members.tripod.com/~drayco2/MM.html and here's a link to that thread
forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=257289,257289

lele
-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

compasscreek Dec 03, 2003 06:31 PM

what ta expect i'm a guy we practice selective listening, reading ect. you know whatever suits us at the time! lol

dennis

TylerStewart Dec 03, 2003 06:37 PM

Ok good thing Dennis took the heat.... I was about to ask what agar was also.
-----
Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
www.BLUEBEASTREPTILE.com

lele Dec 03, 2003 07:26 PM

boy, do I ever! LOL!

>>what ta expect i'm a guy we practice selective listening, reading ect. you know whatever suits us at the time! lol
>>
>>dennis
-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

gomezvi Dec 03, 2003 04:56 PM

I've been having an ongoing discussion about this topic.
A concern that was raised was the viability of the agar over the long term. This stuff is used in the production of bacteria medium, so the concern was the potential of introducing bacteria to prey items through the long term use of agar agar. Just how long could you keep a batch of this stuff before it all goes bad?
One possible solution that was proposed was to use the polymer crystals strictly in the insect BREEDER population. Seperation of the feeder insects for gut loading should be extended to a minimum of two weeks. During gut loading, agar mixed with fruit juice to be used exclusively instead of polymer crystals. This two week period would allow the prey insects to pass any traces of the polymer crystals, and introduction of bacteria would be greatly reduced.
Results: herps are fed prey items with good gut load, free of any traces of polymer crystals, and free of any potential harmful bacteria from the long term use of agar.
-----
Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

chimbakka Dec 03, 2003 05:15 PM

do they eat the crystals or just suck the water out of them??? They seem to be mostly water....

lele Dec 03, 2003 06:06 PM

Victor,

It is my understanding that it is used as a growing medium only after nutrients have been added in order to facilitate the bacterial growth; this is typically yeast and/or peptone (a protein). Therefore, the only worry would be if it was contaminated. When I made my last batch I accidently dropped about 1/4 of the pan into the sink where it came in contact with some food. I threw that portion out. Agar by itself is fine. I keep mine in the fridge.

Your thought for only using it for breeders makes sense if you have any concerns about its use. I would definitely opt for it over polymers - regardless. Agar is used in foods, as a stabilizer and thickener, that we eat all the time. It is derived from red marine algae. It also replaces gelatin (made from animal hooves) for those of us who choose not to eat animal products.

(science trivia for the day

lele

>>I've been having an ongoing discussion about this topic.
>>A concern that was raised was the viability of the agar over the long term. This stuff is used in the production of bacteria medium, so the concern was the potential of introducing bacteria to prey items through the long term use of agar agar. Just how long could you keep a batch of this stuff before it all goes bad?
>>One possible solution that was proposed was to use the polymer crystals strictly in the insect BREEDER population. Seperation of the feeder insects for gut loading should be extended to a minimum of two weeks. During gut loading, agar mixed with fruit juice to be used exclusively instead of polymer crystals. This two week period would allow the prey insects to pass any traces of the polymer crystals, and introduction of bacteria would be greatly reduced.
>>Results: herps are fed prey items with good gut load, free of any traces of polymer crystals, and free of any potential harmful bacteria from the long term use of agar.
>>-----
>>Victor Gomez
>>gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
>>gomezvi@yahoo.com
-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

compasscreek Dec 03, 2003 06:34 PM

does it have a color to it? i know i know you guys are tialking about nutrition and the safety in using this and here i come and ask whats is it and what colors it comes in! lol

dennis

Charm_Paradise Dec 03, 2003 07:18 PM

Dennis-

Agar is the clear jelly like material on seaweed/kelp. Agar is harvested from Gelidium and Gracilaria (people who keep tropical saltwater fish like Tangs use the live verity as food.) The Agar is made by boiling the seaweed and pressing it into a gel then dried.

I use a mix of 2 tablespoons of Agar flakes with 2 cup of juice. If you add more then two cups of liquid per 2 table spoons of Agar the end result will be a mash that will mold faster. Also never dilute the juice or the mix will mold. With this mix I have found that the cubes will dry out before they mold when feed to your crickets/roaches. Orange juice is a favorite for all the feeders.
-----
John W. Lucas

CHAMELEON PARADISE

CHAMELEONS ONLINE E-ZINE AUTHOR

Feeding Baby Chameleons
Caging Baby Chameleons

F. pardalis

Ambilobe Locale
Nosy Be Locale
Sambava Locale

Rhampholeon uluguruensis

Eggs Incubating-

F. pardalis - Ambilobe Locale

got SILKWORMS!


Photo © Chameleon Paradise 2003

lele Dec 03, 2003 07:29 PM

Yes, you can buy it pre-made but is much more expensive. The powder is about $3-$4oz. at a health food store (here in NH...in CA it may be $30- or $40! Designer Agar!) Sorry all you So.CA's!

>>Dennis-
>>
>>Agar is the clear jelly like material on seaweed/kelp. Agar is harvested from Gelidium and Gracilaria (people who keep tropical saltwater fish like Tangs use the live verity as food.) The Agar is made by boiling the seaweed and pressing it into a gel then dried.
>>
>>I use a mix of 2 tablespoons of Agar flakes with 2 cup of juice. If you add more then two cups of liquid per 2 table spoons of Agar the end result will be a mash that will mold faster. Also never dilute the juice or the mix will mold. With this mix I have found that the cubes will dry out before they mold when feed to your crickets/roaches. Orange juice is a favorite for all the feeders.
>>-----
>>John W. Lucas
>>
>>CHAMELEON PARADISE
>>
>>CHAMELEONS ONLINE E-ZINE AUTHOR
>>
>>Feeding Baby Chameleons
>>Caging Baby Chameleons
>>
>>
>>F. pardalis
>>
>>Ambilobe Locale
>>Nosy Be Locale
>>Sambava Locale
>>
>>Rhampholeon uluguruensis
>>
>>Eggs Incubating-
>>
>>F. pardalis - Ambilobe Locale
>>
>>got SILKWORMS!
>>
>>
>>Photo © Chameleon Paradise 2003
-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

gomezvi Dec 04, 2003 08:48 AM

By a company called Kelco, located in San Diego, Logan Heights I believe (tough neighborhood).
They harvest the kelp just off-shore. Best of all, kelp is a completely renewable natural resource.
Agar agar is just one of many products made from kelp. I don't know the ins and outs of it. The only reason why I know about agar agar (outside of this forum) and kelp processing is because a classmate of mine in college did a presentation on this company (she worked there).
Being this is a local company, I'm sorry to say Lele, us So. Cal's won't be paying out the nose (I know this is still a sensative issue ) for this product.
-----
Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

shopaholic Dec 04, 2003 06:10 PM

...of years. It may even account for the thickenss, strength of our hair some say. At any rate, try a Chinese food supermarket for Agar Agar, if one is near you. In Southern CA(at least San Gabriel Valley)you can't get far before you run into one, and no Chinese person will over charge you because it goes against every Chinese business owners' better sense to not promote value. Its better then paying over priced gourmet/health food stores for a staple that the Chinese would just say is like bread.

lele Dec 03, 2003 07:26 PM

ha-ha! that's OK! it is only one color and is a translucent whitish color. Check out the site I linked - he's got pix, recipe, link to nutritional value, etc.

>>does it have a color to it? i know i know you guys are tialking about nutrition and the safety in using this and here i come and ask whats is it and what colors it comes in! lol
>>
>>dennis
-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

wraithy Dec 03, 2003 07:57 PM

I hear that you can use the agar recipe to fix holey nostrils too!

-----
Raf

1.2 Jacksons Adults (Frank, Patty, Lucille)
0.0.1 Jackson's baby (George, R.I.P. 11/17/2003)
1.1 Nosy Be's (Mars and Roja)
1.1 Veiled - No Names Yet
0.1 Adult Sulcatta (POOPIE,I bought it from Victor at Kobey's in SD)
0.0.2 Baby Sulcattas (frick and frack)
1.0 Home's Hingeback Tortoise (SPEEDY, From Victor as well)
1.2 Red ear slider babies (Hingis, Dingis and Dorkus)
0.0.1 3 toed box turtle - No Name Yet
0.0.1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle - No Name Yet
1.0 Red Siberian Husky (Harley)
0.1 Black Lab (Krissy)
0.1 English Bulldog (Alice)
0.1 Blue Merle Great Dane (Wednesday)
Saltwater Fish and Inverts too

lele Dec 04, 2003 09:07 AM

>>I hear that you can use the agar recipe to fix holey nostrils too!
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Raf
>>
>>1.2 Jacksons Adults (Frank, Patty, Lucille)
>>0.0.1 Jackson's baby (George, R.I.P. 11/17/2003)
>>1.1 Nosy Be's (Mars and Roja)
>>1.1 Veiled - No Names Yet
>>0.1 Adult Sulcatta (POOPIE,I bought it from Victor at Kobey's in SD)
>>0.0.2 Baby Sulcattas (frick and frack)
>>1.0 Home's Hingeback Tortoise (SPEEDY, From Victor as well)
>>1.2 Red ear slider babies (Hingis, Dingis and Dorkus)
>>0.0.1 3 toed box turtle - No Name Yet
>>0.0.1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle - No Name Yet
>>1.0 Red Siberian Husky (Harley)
>>0.1 Black Lab (Krissy)
>>0.1 English Bulldog (Alice)
>>0.1 Blue Merle Great Dane (Wednesday)
>>Saltwater Fish and Inverts too
-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

eric adrignola Dec 04, 2003 10:03 AM

Agar does grow bacteria without any added nutrients when in an insect cage. It's a perfect medium for bacteria, and I have seen some nasty stuff growing on it after a few days. That's why I'd only use it for a day or so. But that's the problem--hydration. The poly crystals last for a long time. Agar don't. I'll use Agar for gutloading, feeding, etc, anything where I don't have to leave it in for a long time. For my breeders, I'll use the crystals, and that lasts a long time.

I did have some big die-offs when I used Agar. I kept it in for only a few days, but I lost most of my roaches. I put the agar under the scope, and it was a-swimmming with bacteria, and it stunk like heck. I am planning on using it mixed with greens, as food, but I use the crystals for water.

As far as gelatin goes...

ANIMAL HOOVES???!!??

Don't try and scare people with that. Gelatin is made from Animal Collegen, found in ligaments, connective tissues, tendons, skin and bones. They're gross enough, without hooves. Hooves are mostly Keratin anyway.

Vegans and other groups(PETA) have spread the rumor that it's made of hooves and horns. IT IS a pretty nasty process, and it IS made from pretty nasty stuff(skin, bones, snouts, etc), but Gelitan comes form the bodies of animals slaughtered for FOOD(No, they're not scraping up roadkill...it's amazing the lies PETA spreads).

Gelitan is not "MADE FROM HOOVES!"
Horns and hooves might find their way into the grinder, but that would be incedental, as they are probably contain the LEAST amount of collegen.

Nasty, yes.
Hooves, no.
mixed with fruit flavor, yummy.
Good for vegans--no way in heck

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