Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Greetings and Happy Holidays to everyone!

I'm interested in any and all designs and links for snake racks. After paying over 2g for snakes I don't really want to pay another bajillion dollars in racks or aquariums. I'm not too bright so everything has to be detailed very well especially since I'm not the best carpenter. I made my cat's tree it's about 6ft tall. It was hard but I had a ball with it. I think it's that sense of accomplishment. Boaphile makes one I want. www.boaphileplastics.com/sideblanketrack.html I'm not a big fan on small tubs. Heck the ball we have now is in a 55 gallon, if I could I'd put them all in big 30 gallon tanks. So I would prefer the bigger size tubs. Any help is appreciated I'm still sifting though old posts and compiling a list of designs. I would like belly heat. I'm not thinking the tape would wear out but would it get to hot as to burn or melt the plastic on the tubs? I'm completely clueless. I know I'm hearing Micheal has some great designs and I'm dying to see that photo of your rack, but it doesn't show up on my computer. Thanks a million in advance I need to have something set up before the new year.

Violette Garcia

Hi there,
I am currently in the process of making a rack system for my large San Diego Gophers. I went everywhere from Walmart to Target and saw every large tub out there. The problem I found was that although their measurements are say 34"L x 17.5"W when I measured the actual floor space they came out to be 29" x 14"! So I went to The Container Store and found the perfect large tubs that have 34" x 17" actual floor space. They are much more expensive but they are the perfect size and are the best quality and very heat resistant. I figure it's worth the extra money to get larger tubs that will last a life time. They also have small legs under them which provides the perfect space for belly heat. This way there is no friction when the tubs are moved in and out and the heat tape doesn't touch the container. I also found the best site for building racks to be arbreptiles.com. Here are the links for the container and rack system. Hapy Holidays.

http://www.thecontainerstore.com/browse/Product.jhtml?CATID=71227&PRODID=61110

http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/rack.html

You use a temperature controller to prevent overheating of the heat tape. A lamp dimmer wired onto heat tape is the easiest method but not the best necessarily unless the heat tape is "muted" with a metal conductive surface. This is what Freedom Breeder does.

I urge you to look at the classifieds on kingsnake.com for Cages/Supplies/etc. There is an ad for metal racks made in California that uses large Iris boxes large enough for adult BPs. I've seen the racks in person, and they are awesome. I can't remember their name at the time of this writing, but I'll check for that later.

Also consider Freedom Breeder. For around $500 you can have clean, heated, large boxes ready to go.

If you want to make your own rack, get the boxes first, then make the rack around those. Stores like Office Depot sell Iris boxes that are large.

Looks like you have found some good advice already.

Have you seen the Marcus Jayne style rack for BP's? A few on this board have built these and seem to like them.

As far as boxes, I'd recommend a box with a flat bottom. The feet are a good way to allow under floor heating but I don't feel they are worth the other problems they bring.

Most importantly is that over time the boxes begin to sag around the feet, especially when exposed to heat and heavy snakes and/or water bowls.

There are other ways to provide under floor heating without your boxes having feet.

So I'd prefer the Iris CB-110 or CB-70, or even the Sterilite box that many of ball python breeders use.

I also like the ARB link the previous post supplied. I recommend building them with melamine spacers as shown in the provided link.

Scroll down to Assembly to see the use of spacers.
Rack Assembly

Marcus Jayne style I think that's the one I keep seeing photos of, with the big 32 qt Sterile tubs or the 41 qt tubs that no one seems to find easily. I want big tubs. I don't want my poor snakes all cramped up while there trying to copulate. I haven't seen the links for that type of rack yet I saw a few designs I liked here as I dug through 4 and 5 pages deep in back posts. The photos don't show up anymore though so all I have are the dimentions on the racks to go by. I'm not the best carpenter so I'm not sure that will be good enough I just keep reading and rereading how to do tape and I think I'll take things one step at a time and build a rack then figure out how to make it heat with tape/wire/something. I'm just trying to absorb it all in and bookmark all the important links so I can go back and reread them. Thanks for all the help.

Violette

I'll go ahead and list a bunch of useful links that you'll have to cut and paste. Feel free to e-mail me with any questions or problems.

Here's the Markus Jayne style rack:

http://www.ballpython.ca/The%20Rack.htm

One important consideration is how tall or short you want the rack to be. Obviously, this will be at least partially determined by your choice of box.

Let us know and we can help you with a design that makes most efficient use of wood.

This next link is the one that was mentioned earlier. I like it because it shows how I build racks "upside down" (it's not my site, though).

http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/rack.html

However, I do not recommend using the boxes as spacers, especially for a bigger box. Just don't do it.

Instead, I recommned spacers cut from scrap melamine. I'll try to post just the picture. The rest of the site is good, and feel free to read through it, but I think it's a bit more complex than you need to make your rack. Especially since you're a beginner.

Once again, I posted this earlier, but I thought it would be helpful for you to have all links in one post.

http://www.finegtps.com/Racks.htm

So in summary, I recommend a Markus Jayne style rack (depending upon what box you finally select and how tall you want it) that you assemble "upside down" similar to what's posted in the ARB link. But instead of using the boxes as spacers, use melamine spacers as used in the FineGTPs link (and hopefully the picture I'm trying to post).

Regarding your construction ability, keep in mind that the gap used for ball pythons can be much larger than the 1/8" normally recommended. This actually makes construction easier and mistakes less costly.

Don't try building a hatchling rack first, they require much stricter tolerances.

Also, a rack this size requires a helper. Certainly you can find someone with a bit of experience or confidence with carpentry?

As far as boxes, get in touch with the folks at reptiletubs.com and see if they have any of the CB-110 boxes in stock.

The floor area of this box (not the actual box dimension which will be larger) is 36" x 17". I believe the floor area of the CB-70 will be 30" x 15" but you should ask them to be sure. The CB-70 will be slightly shallower than the CB-110 but I don't think that's a problem for Ball Pythons.

Even if you do find any of the Sterilite boxes (or the discontinued Rubbermaids that Markus Jayne uses) the Iris' will be more sturdily built and able to withstand dropping, etc.

This picture shows how the melamine spacer is used to keep the shelves the proper distance apart. Keep in mind that I recommend assembling the rack upside down rather on it's side (as shown in this picture).

One other comment. Consider buying your material from a cabinet shop. If you use melamine it will be more expensive from them but it will also be of much higher quality.

Furthermore, they will cut it for you and do an excellent job.

All this will end up costing you a bit more but will make assembly easier.

Once again, I'm happy to help with the exact measurements.

The sterlite 41q are only 13.5" wide, which is way too small to comfortably house one adult Ball, forget about using it as a breeding tub. The cb70 mentions by chris is only 14" wide x 30" long, but the cb110 is a good size. However, these tubs are low quality and very thin plastic and that's why people have seen them sag and think every tub out there sags. Well, I have used the tubs from The Container Store for years and they have never sagged, infact they have the most sturdy quality out there, they are the next best thing to glass. The legs are only 1/8" long and hard as rocks and are widely placed on each corner and in the middle so that has never been a problem either. The belly of these tubs are so sturdy that even 10 lbs will not sagg them over the years, never mind the huge dog bowls full of water and my huge Gophers. It amazes me that other cheap tubs sag with only the snakes and water bowls in them...LOL. If you want the best you have to spend a little more, but your Balls will thank you when they are huge adults, specially the females. Trust me, I've done the math and measured every tub out there myself, there is a huge living space difference between a tub 13.5x29 and 17x34, and low quality that sags and an unbreakable polypropylene construction three times as thick and ten times as strong and able to withstand 110 degrees F. Remember, you have to think long term with a rack system and build for the future.

Hi NZ,

I'm very surprised to hear you say that as my experiences have been the complete opposite. Likewise, the private breeders I've contacted using the CB-70 and CB-110 have raved about them.

I suspect the flexibility problems you mention are from using these tubs in racks with rails rather than sliding on a shelf. The Iris boxes have to be trimmed slightly to allow for this - not something I would recommend.

I checked out the Container Store tub and the CB-70 side by side at the Denver-area store. The CS tub was flexible and easy to twist. Much more so than the CB-70.

Also, I've been using the CB-80 for a semi-arboreal species and have been very impressed. With the extra height there would be more flexibility than a shorter box but it's still extremely rigid. It's the best box of it's size I've used.

To be fair, I should say that I have no practical experience with the CS tubs. I've used tubs with feet for other projects and decided to avoid them whenever possible.

I'll also add that the CS tub was not necessarily a bad tub. It was clearly better made than many other tubs on the market. But when the CB-70 right next to it was more rigid and straight there was no question.

Lastly, I agree that the floor area you listed for the CB-70 is smaller than I'd prefer to use for a BP (I measured it but did not write it down). If I were building a BP rack I'd go with the CB-110 but not use it in a rack with rails for the box to slide on.

I've seen that design with glideslides to make each tub slide on so there's no gap on top of each tub, each tub slides easily and smoothly. Where they heck do I find those and I'm afraid that's more gadgets I'd have to figure out how to make work. I'm still staring at the photos of spacers and telling myself how if I read it one more time I might actually understand the concept. By spacers they mean the space underneath each tub? Or do they mean the space beside tub so they all fit on the shelf comfortably? I've seen those 110 tubs, aren't they too small though? I want my poor snakes to have room to move around in. I like the 32q size Sterile tubs, but I'm unsure as to the dimensions there actual floor space. Does anyone have adult bps in these size tubs. I swear I saw Boaphilics with blanket boxes or sweater boxes that looked rather tall-er then the 110 reptitubs and looked like they had a larger floor space.

Thanks for the advice on the cabinet materials and cutting I think as soon as I have some sort of dimentions and know how much material I'll be using that's where I'll head, right after I buy the tubs. I can't cut things, I borrowed my neighbor's (I don't even know what it's called!) big circle blade saw thing that cut all my plywood.

One thing is for certain I'm terribly excited, and I notice a pattern I like carpentry as a hobby. I hope that doesn't make me the wierdiest female. Shhh don't tell my husband though.

Violette Garcia

. . . .who is still trying to figure out what size of tub she's going to put her snakes in. (Good grief, women can't ever make up there minds.)

Regarding boxes, you should always compare the actual floor area rather than the listed dimensions. Some boxes taper more than others so a bigger box can actually have less floor area.

So take a tape measure or rely on us here to provide you with actual floor areas.

The height is a non-issue, IMO. Ball Pythons really seem to enjoy coiling up at the back of these racks such that they're touching two sides of a corner and the floor AND the ceiling. When I used to keep BP's and had them in racks they'd often not use supplied hide boxes, preferring to wedge themselves in the back corner.

So any of the recommended boxes are going to be tall enough and probably even preferred by BP's.

If you're absolutely paranoid about heat you can always use individual Ultra-Therm heat pads under each of your boxes. This will be more expensive but easier to install and probably provide you greater piece of mind. A very safe way to provide under-floor heating in my opinion.

The racks with guides still leave a gap. In some cases the gap is bigger than what is provided by a typical melamine or plywood rack. If you want to build yourself I recommend you stay away from this design. You can try something like this later when you get to the point you enjoy building as much as you enjoy the snakes.

The spacers set the exact distance between any two shelves.

Let's say your box is 6 inches tall *EXACTLY* with the lid off. If you want the gap between the top of the box and the upper shelf to be 1/8", then your spacers will be 6 and 1/8".

But like I said before, an adult BP can have a larger gap than 1/8".

Does that help?

We are obviously talking about two different boxes. The Iris CB-110 is much, much larger than the Sterilite 32 qt. In fact it's significantly larger than any of the other boxes mentioned in this thread.

The floor area of the 32 qt. Sterilite box is 20" x 14". The Iris CB-110 is 36" x 17.5". So the CB-110 is 2.25 times larger than the Sterilite.

I think you're relying too much on the perspective provided by pictures or have your boxes confused.

Like I said, decide on a box and how many boxes you want a rack to hold. From their we can help you decide on the best way to have your wood cut as to get the most from your money.

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That tub looks pretty big to me. . .Is it tall enough though, I know balls aren't arboral but I, well I don't know. I like the space in those tubs though. Something tells me once I figure out what kind of tubs or size of tubs I want to use the rest is going to be easier up untill I try to kill myself with electricity and heating tape/wire and trying to set it up. What kind of tubs are those Micheal? Sterile but do they have a name or should I just walk around with a tape measure and read dimentions on the tubs?
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I've seen that design with glideslides to make each tub slide on so there's no gap on top of each tub, each tub slides easily and smoothly. Where they heck do I find those and I'm afraid that's more gadgets I'd have to figure out how to make work. I'm still staring at the photos of spacers and telling myself how if I read it one more time I might actually understand the concept. By spacers they mean the space underneath each tub? Or do they mean the space beside tub so they all fit on the shelf comfortably? I've seen those 110 tubs, aren't they too small though? I want my poor snakes to have room to move around in. I like the 32q size Sterile tubs, but I'm unsure as to the dimensions there actual floor space. Does anyone have adult bps in these size tubs. I swear I saw Boaphilics with blanket boxes or sweater boxes that looked rather tall-er then the 110 reptitubs and looked like they had a larger floor space.

Thanks for the advice on the cabinet materials and cutting I think as soon as I have some sort of dimentions and know how much material I'll be using that's where I'll head, right after I buy the tubs. I can't cut things, I borrowed my neighbor's (I don't even know what it's called!) big circle blade saw thing that cut all my plywood.

One thing is for certain I'm terribly excited, and I notice a pattern I like carpentry as a hobby. I hope that doesn't make me the wierdiest female. Shhh don't tell my husband though.

Here's a ball python rack I built out of 3/4" melamine and I used Sterlite tubs ( 36"x16"x6" ) and they work perfectly. I got the design from Markus Jayne's eating machine. I can give you more details if you want. Please email me with any and all questions you may have at uf_gators_no1@yahoo.com

Hope this helps!!

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Michael

Here's a picture of one of the tubs that is housing a big female and I recently introduced a pastel male in there to breed with her...and as you can see they are loving the place...and they fit quite comfortably!!

Hope you like...

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Michael

That big female looks like she needs a 55 gallon, looks way too cramped in there.

i agree that you need a bigger tub for her, i reccomend a 66 quart from sterilite. (39 1/2 x 20 1/4)

but, not a 55 gallon. too expensive, too hard to keep warm, too hard to clean, too hard to keep up humidity. Takes up too much space. rack is the way to go, just a bigger tub.

Well I think she is fine in that tub. Plus you are only seeing have the tub in the picture...the tub is 36" x 16" and is just right for ball pythons. Been keeping and breeding them in these size tubs for a long time now and they have done wonderful. This is considered the norm in tub size for them. Thanks for the input but don't criticize so harshly!!

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Michael

measure the actual floor space in those tubs, I bet they are only 14" wide, which is way too small for an adult female ball. That is something I would expect to see in a zoo setting, which is inhumane and bad practice. She should have at least 18"x36" floor space IMHO.

That's fine. If you think that is correct or the proper way to house them, then go for it. I've been doing this for years and it has worked extremely well. The balls are as healthy as can be and seem to love their enclosures. Also, I have worked in a zoo before and what you said was WRONG!! If you have never worked in a zoo before then I suggest you keep those comments to yourself as you have no idea what is actually done at zoos for the benefits of the animals.

You are entitled to your opinion and that's fine with me. If you want to house your balls in a different enclosure then that's your choice. But don't say that what I'm keeping them in is "inhumane" or too cramped. Do you suggest I build an entire room for them to crawl around in? Ask some of those that breed balls regularly what size enclosure they use and then see how you feel.

Again, thanks for the input but I'll stick with what works for me and my beloved snakes!!
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Michael

Ok, so you worked maintenance at a zoo, I am talking about what goes on behind closed doors. The animals are cramped in way too small cages like yours and are rotated in and out of the viewing public. But at least there they get rotated into somewhere larger for a little exercise. If your Balls are so "beloved" then why aren't they able to stretch out when they need to! I build my snake enclosures to fit the needs of my snakes not to save money or space. That's what I suggest you do, and I am guessing you won't so I am just going to say I feel sorry for your Balls and their remaining days in such inhumane conditions.

For what it's worth, I know of a few people who have visited two of the top Ball Python breeders in the US. Names that everyone would know.

According to them the rubbermaid 2221's (floor area of 20" x 14" were commonly used. They said many of them were slid open and all you could see was a huge female and a water bowl - practically all the floor area was covered.

In fact there are pictures of this on the web if anyone cares to find them.

Hi Chris -

You relate that with a perfectly neutral tone, which I assume was your intent. Care to share an opinion on your observation? I admit, I haven't yet waded through all the posts on this thread yet, so I apologize if you have already made your feelings clear on this issue.

-Joan

I did not mean it to be so neutral. I had to run and thought I had made enough of a point. I guess I should not be surprised to be back here giving an opinion

First and foremost, I'd bet that the picture Michael showed gave a scewed perspective. Pictures can do that. Pictures posted on the internet often do that.

Second, I'm not entirely convinced everyone actually knows which box it is Michael is using. This "argument" would be easier to follow if we had more dimensions that just 13.5" wide. The 32 qt. Sterilites I have are 1/2" wider than that. So either the 42 qt. Sterilites are the about same width and longer, and/or there is some confusion about the box.

I no longer keep ball pythons and have not really paid much attention to them in many years. Yet even I've seen the pictures of some of the major breeders with most of the BP's maintained in boxes that are clearly smaller than Michael's.

I do not want to give the impression that I think 28 qt. Rubbermaids or 32 qt. Sterilites are okay just because some of the major breeders use them "successfully". In fact if one looks up my posts on BP racks I'm a huge proponent of the Iris CB-110 - basically the biggest box available for such a project.

But I do believe that someone like Michael has every reason to believe that his box is appropriate. It's clearly bigger than a 28 qt. rubbermaid.

Lastly, I will say that there are anecdotes throughout professional and private herpetology that suggest bigger is not always better when it comes to cage size - at least for snakes. I would not be at all surprised if many BP's did better and felt more secure in a 28 qt. rubbermaid than they did a 55 gallon aquarium. However, even if so, I suspect the ideal is somewhere inbetween.

All good points Chris. I guess I overlooked the fact that some breeders build racks to simulate a hide spot. I should have mentioned before that I provide a large hide box on one end and a water bowl large enough for the snake to fit in at the other end of the tub. I try to create the most natural and comfortable environment for my snakes, and a more sanitary living space, by using the larger containers.

Chris, once again you've maid several great points that made alot of sense. And the tubs I'm using are 48qt...just for the record.

Thanks for the information and support!!
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Michael

supports your bad husbandry practice. Don't flatter yourself. Obviously neither does this forum since all your greatest work have been deleted. I'm not surprised since it was a load of you know what. The 48 quarts are a joke, they are barely 14"x33" and I wouldn't keep a corn snake in them, and you thought you were keepin them in a 17x35...lol. Next time do yourself a favor and shell out for a tame measure. :O

I came on here and stated my facts...apologized to anyone I may have offended...kept my cool...and now you go off and act like this?!

I won't stoop to your level...nothing left to say since I know I'm right!!!

Thanks for your input nz!!
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Michael

If I understand you correctly you've stated that a 55 gallon would be fine for the female Ball Python in the picture posted by Michael?

A 55 gallon aqarium offers less than a 20% increase in floor area over the box that Michael uses. I struggle to understand how that increase makes the husbandry go from "inhumane" to "good" (your words). Especially when you consider all the anecdotes of Ball Python specimens going from non-eaters to thriving breeders when taken out of aquariums and placed in tubs.

Also, I'm a bit surprised to hear that you keep Pituophis spp. in the Container Store tubs you listed. Pituophis spp. are known to be very active and move long distances. This is well represented in the scientific literature.

Yet Ball Pythons are know for occupying small areas and spending most of their time in very tight, communal burrows.

These differences in natural history strongly suggest that Pituophis would require more space than a Ball Python. Yet you offer barely more than what you're saying is "inhumane" for Michaels Ball Python.

I'm not writing this to pick on you. Rather, I want it to encourage some friendly debate vs. irrational and rude flaming.

How about we build a 10 foot wall around Ghana??? Is that big enough for you???
Go Canes

Well Chris, thanks for replying with a neutral point of view. And your point seems to support mine to the fullest...Ball pythons thrive best in adequate sized tubs, not huge and overly roomy tubs, which stress them out...

But of course, some people don't understand this at all!! Which is fine. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion!!

Good Point Chris!!
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Michael

The general rule of thumb is measure the long side and short side of the box add those together and the snake should be no longer than that. This is to avoid health issues. I am sure most would like a little larger living space for there reptiles. They do need to stretch occasionaly but for the majority of the time
most snakes stay to pretty confined areas.

Okay, looks like you moved without much delay to the “You’re stoopid, no YOU’RE stoopid. Just shut up. No YOU shut up” mode of message board communication. Which means that it won’t be long before the Wizard We Never See Behind the Curtain pulls a lever and dumps this thread. Too bad, because I think this is a very interesting topic of conversation.

I’d be willing to bet that I’ve been breeding ball pythons longer than both of you put together have even kept them. There! That’s my contribution to the chest thumping.

I have kept my share of snakes in what I would consider cramped quarters over the years. Still, I am not at all reluctant to admit that it can creep me out to think of a creature like a ball python which can EASILY reach five feet in length and with a possible five decade life span confined in a “cage” with a floor area of 300 square inches.

I think people with good hearts who wouldn’t dream of keeping Fluffy their pet dog, cat, whatever, confined to a tiny pen for a lifetime and bred whenever it came into heat simply think about reptiles in a different way. Perhaps because many people feel they’re only one weird morph away from making their fortunes in whatever reptile it is they keep by the tub-full in the back bedroom.

Anyway, why not keep talking, but without the name calling?

-Joan

Thanks for the reply. I have to admit, I did get a little hastey in my replies and I apologize to nz. But when someone comes out and harshly criticizes another person without knowing all the facts, it gets to me.

I made my point simple and plain, but then kept being told I was inhumane and had no idea what I was doing!! NOT TRUE

And as far as having as much or not as much experience as another person, I couldn't care less!! I know people who have been caring for snakes a short while that are more knowledgeable than some who have been doing it a long time. And each person has his or her own way of doing things!!

So why nz fealt the need to tell me I was incorrect in my methods and that I wasn't treating my snakes humanely is absolutely absurd!!!!!!!

Anyways, I respect everyone's opinion on here and I apologize to anyone and everyone that I may have offended! I was just trying to get my point across!!

Truce!

Thanks again for the input and hopefully we've managed to help Violette with her question!

Happy Breeding Season Everyone!!!
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Michael

I just forgot what the question was with all the commotion. JUST KIDDING! I remember tubs and size I found a 74qt with dimensions of 44" x 19 3/4" x 6 3/8", don't ask me what floor size it has but it's super huge it's like twice as big on floor space as the 41qt Sterile I saw. I loved it, I figured it didn't get much bigger then that. Except maybe you think it's too big??? I swear that 41qt looked too small still compared with the 55 gallon we have. I'ma go check out Reptitubs see if I can find something that compares and check out Chris's 110 tub. I swear as soon as I figure out what tub I'ma use I can actually move this project along. I don't think it's a very good idea to give a woman too many choices. . .I'm just going to take feeeerever to figure it out. I guarentee you it's going to be perfect when it's all said and done though. I want something that will last me a few years.

Violette

What brand of box was this?

With boxes this size it's always a good idea to make sure they are sturdily built. Many of the boxes in this size class flex great when in lidless racks and start to crack over time.

Yeah Chris, I was like wow that's a big tub I like that one. The floor's not totally flush though it has areas that are raised and areas that are flush, I wondered if this would effect how the heat was dispersed in the tub. Although now that you mention it I didn't think about how flimsy it my be being so big. It was made by Sterilite too. It was called an underbed box. You think I should just go with the 41 qts?

Violette

One final little point to consider if all your other parameters are met – go with the one that has a flat bottom inside over one with lots of valleys and ridges. It will make cleaning so much easier. I believe most (all?) of the Iris boxes have nice smooth flat “floors.”

-Joan

I do not think you should go with the 41 qt. box. Not because I think it's a bad box (ie too small) per se, but because I don't think you'll be happy with it in the long run. It's clear you want to provide a lot of space and that you want this to be the perfect rack.

So for your own piece of mind I think you should find a bigger box.

As far as this 74 qt. box you found, I'd avoid it too. I believe it's a discontinued product for Sterilite and I don't think it's built sturdily enough to withstand use in a lidless rack.

Regarding the bottom, very few boxes have a perfectly flat outside bottom. Many have 4 little feet which are a bad idea in rack systems. Others tend to have ridge that runs around the outside perimeter of the box. These slide much better than the ones with feet and don't have a significant effect on heat distribution.

They do create a small groove on the inside bottom of the box, and yes, these can be difficult to clean. But given how easy rack systems are to clean in the first place this is not my primary concern. If all else is equal, though, get a box with as few grooves etc. on the inside floor/bottom.

The Iris boxes are unique. They have a pattern of raised squares distributed throughout the outside bottom to provide a lot of strength and rigidity. However, the inside floor/bottom is nice and flat. (Good point, Joan. I had totally forgotten about that.)

What city/state do you live in? Check and see if there is a container store within reasonable driving distance. They often carry the Iris CB-70. Call and check first. You can see how it's constructed and then decide if you want more space. If you do, you'll have to order them from Reptiletubs.com or Habitat Systems.

I do not have the CB-70 measurements with me. I do believe it's slightly larger than the Sterilite 41 qt.

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Yeah Chris, I was like wow that's a big tub I like that one. The floor's not totally flush though it has areas that are raised and areas that are flush, I wondered if this would effect how the heat was dispersed in the tub. Although now that you mention it I didn't think about how flimsy it my be being so big. It was made by Sterilite too. It was called an underbed box. You think I should just go with the 41 qts?

I meant to say that if you decide you need more space than the CB-70 you'll have to order the CB-110 from Reptiletubs.com or Habitat Systems.

I've dealt with both companies and they are run by great people. Can't go wrong either way.
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They often carry the Iris CB-70. Call and check first. You can see how it's constructed and then decide if you want more space. If you do, you'll have to order them from Reptiletubs.com or Habitat Systems.

Just so we are fair to Michael, the floor area of his boxes are probably over 400 sq. in. The 28 qt. rubbermaids are about 300, actually less.

Also, wouldn't you agree that BP's often do better in racks than in spacious enclosures?

Floor area non-withstanding, there are hundreds of anecdotes of keepers moving BP's from terrariums into tubs and find they start feeding, etc.

Of course this could be due to numerous factors. Perhaps the humidity or thermal gradiants are better maintained in a rack, but I suspect at least part of it is that the specimens feel better in the tighter, darker quarters. And by tighter I don't necessarily mean less floor area.

only those posts with the word “ass” in them, have been disposed of by the Wizard. And one with the misspelled French word. So, that’s a good thing, right? Jeepers, this is the Cage Forum, after all, not the Ball Python Forum or Venomous Forum. We have pretty delicate sensibilities over here.

That tub looks pretty big to me. . .Is it tall enough though, I know balls aren't arboral but I, well I don't know. I like the space in those tubs though. Something tells me once I figure out what kind of tubs or size of tubs I want to use the rest is going to be easier up untill I try to kill myself with electricity and heating tape/wire and trying to set it up. What kind of tubs are those Micheal? Sterile but do they have a name or should I just walk around with a tape measure and read dimentions on the tubs?

Violette