Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Anyone know of any good care sheets for these guys? I'm having trouble finding some. I'm considering getting one, but need to at least initially know their temp & humidity requirements - and minimum cage size for a male.

Thanks.

Opinions vary on the temp, so I just do what Don Hamper told me- room temperature. I don't heat mine at all. They're from the mountians and don't do well with warm temperatures. At any rate I wouldn't let them get above 85. They also need a good deal of humidity, I just give mine moist hides and they seem very happy.
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Peter: It's OK, I'll handle it. I read a book about something like this.
Brian: Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't NOTHING?

Thanks for the info!

So percentage wise what's a good humidity level (both in and out of shed)? And so they really don't need a temp gradient?

?
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0.0.1 Ball Python
0.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa "Gimli"

I'd say you could keep an adult with something the equivalent of a 20 gallon long in floor space or a little larger (if you're going for an aquarium). I keep my adult WC 4' male in a 28qt tub in an unheated shelf on my rack. He's not as heavy bodied as my CB snakes though since he's not as strong feeder. I think my CB 2000 male will end up being closer to 5', so I will probably move him to a larger enclosure as he grows. Pro Exotics has a care sheet on their site and if you do a search on Google (use the latin name elaphe mandarina and then search just Mandarin Rat Snake) you'll come up with a few other sources.
Lora

In contrast to, say, KSB's, I don't think the male mandarins stay significantly shorter than the females. But if you're only getting one, they ARE significantly cheaper, up to 100$.
(I warned you they were expensive!)
I actually thought they stayed more like 3 feet, mine are yearlings. Well, if they get too big I'll just put them in with my king ratsnakes, they're both from China, right?
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Peter: It's OK, I'll handle it. I read a book about something like this.
Brian: Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't NOTHING?

By King Ratsnakes, do you mean Carinata ? If so, aren't they cannibalistic (hence the 'king' bit) ?

Yup... just a joke of mine. As adults, they'd probably be able to kill mandarins just by LOOKING at them.
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Peter: It's OK, I'll handle it. I read a book about something like this.
Brian: Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't NOTHING?

The reason I was going to get male is because I figured they stayed smaller than females. Is the reverse really true? I was hoping to be able to us a 36"x24"x18" or 12". Will this work for either male or female? Do they like/need to climb?
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0.0.1 Ball Python
0.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa "Gimli"

Tig, your cage size is plenty big as far as I'm concerned. I still have mine in ten gallon tanks at four yrs. of age. My Mandarins are only a little over three ft. long though. If they were any bigger, a fifteen or twenty gallon would be appropriate. My cages measure 20x10x12=2400sq.in. Your 18" high cage would be over 10,000sq.in. The reason different sizes are needed is because of the different size snakes. There's a lot of variety in Mandarins. My pair from s.e. China are about the smallest Mandarins I've seen. But they are also quite common.

Also, Mandarins are nocturnal and you won't see them much unless you stay up late. They do fine w/o any climbing branches. Mine have the basic lg. hide box, lg. water jugs, and aspen bedding a couple inches deep. They have adapted well. They also have adapted to conditions in my herp room, 70 to 80*F, and humidity fluctuations from 30 to 50%. I use moist sphagnum when needed for shedding. They can be active in cooler temps than a corn, and are similar in humidity needs, doing well with a little more.

I have seen them stress a lot at temps over 80. Keep them cool. Sphagnum moss hide boxes kept moist have worked well for me in the past. Also, no matter how good the deal seems, don't get anywhere near a wild caught. Some of the best colubrid breeders in the nation have learned that lesson the hard way.

I believe temperature and rate of feeding are the most important variables to control once you have purchased a captive born mandarin ratsnake that is already proven to be feeding well and on schedule.

First, temperature. My entire collection of mandarins from neonates to adults have never been exposed to 80 degrees. During the non brumation period, from say, March to September or so, they can be at the room temperature of your colubrid or other room. That may start out in the low 60's and work up to the mid to high 70's. If the room is warmer than that, you can keep them on the floor. But they do well at about 75 degrees. When it gets cool in the room as you approach brumation, many of the animals will continue to feed, even at lower temperatures.

Do not over feed your mandarins. I offer them food once a week throughout their life (except for gravid females-they will need more). If they pass up a meal, they are offered another meal in another week. Males may not eat very much during the breeding season. The same regimen goes for babies. They get one small pink every week. If they pass, they are offered food in another week. They grow relatively slowly, live at relatively low temperatures, and do not require a lot of food.

Do not feed your mandarins large meals. They cannot digest a large rodent the way a kingsnake can. There should not be a large lump in your mandarin after it feeds. A kingsnake can go to it's heat source to digest a large meal, but a mandarin does not have a heat source. It gets smaller meals.

When it gets cold, or it's about late September or early October, most mandarins start to slow down and will soon brumate. At about that time I have ceased feeding, and I open the window to my colubrid room. Temperatures average in the 50's and 60's mostly, but they occasionally get down into the low 40's. On March 1st I close the window. In a couple of weeks my other colubrids are warming up with heat sources and the temperature in the room gradually builds up to the 70's. The annual cycle repeats.

Substrate seems less important. I have used a variety of shavings and paper products will equal results.

Humidity might be important. But I just keep a moist and a dry hide box in each tray. The animal can move around and choose the appropriate humidity for that moment.

Enclosure size does not seem too important. Mandarins are relatively small snakes. I use shoe boxes for babies, and 5" high bus trays for adults. You can go larger and use aquaria. Keep in mind that mandarins are often secretive snakes that tend to avoid the limelight. So ensure that they have a place to hide where they may feel secure.

For babies that are still feeding during the brumation period, I move them to my python room where the background temperature in the winter is 75 degrees. It is critical to monitor temperature throughout the year. Whereas cold temperatures are OK, 80 degrees is not OK. I would consider it an emergency and find another place in the house to move the snakes. The best way to monitor temperature is with a reliable laser temperature gun.

I believe mandarin ratsnakes are one of the easiest snakes to keep as both pets and as breeders. They all seem to breed in 18 months, many of them double clutch, and they live for a very long time. Since they do not require a heat source, their care is even easier than that of kingsnakes. They do not require large cages, and cleaning is relatively easy.
Link

Saw your post and just wanted to let you know that the pair of Mandarins you sold me last year are doing great. Both are growing well and have been a pleasure to own.
Lora

Hi Lora,

I'm very happy to hear from you. I'm happy you are enjoying your snakes so much. I didn't realize you could keep them in the 70's year round and that they would not go off feed. I know that they are willing to eat in the 60's when they are starting to cool down, but I just avoid it because I know they will be getting much colder. But that is very interesting.

Thank you very much for all the info!

Two questions:

how do you determine the appropriate size meal for a mandarin - do you give prey that is equal in size to the thickest part of the snakes body?

Also, is it required to provide lower temps part of the year or can they remain at the same temp year round (say room temp of about 72 degrees)?

Thanks again.
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0.0.1 Ball Python
0.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa "Gimli"

If you aren't breeding then there isn't really a reason to brumate (cool them down) other than to save on feeding costs. I've fed many species of rat snake through the winter (including Mandarins) by keeping temps in the 70-75% range and making sure they had a light cycle longer than the temperate winter light cycle of my locale.
For feeding, my Mandarins eat smaller prey than my North American Rat snakes (and Kings) of similar size. My adult Mandarin still eats small adult mice though he's about 4 ft long.
Lora

The answer to the second question is easy. Except for babies which may go through the brumation period without cooling, mandarins "want" to get cold. I go with what the snakes "want" and I come out better that way. I would suggest getting them cold for 5 months.

On the question of the food, it's not scientific. I know a big meal when I see it. If you have kingsnakes, you know that a three foot kingsnake can handle a monster mouse. But a 3 foot mandarin should have a smaller mouse, maybe sub adult. It's so unscientific it embarasses me. But you want the lump to be just barely perceptable. Remember to be conservative. They can get by with very little food, but a big meal can harm them.

I hope this helps.