Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In taking photos of thumbnails what would you digital camera experts suggest is better to have- more megapixels (like 3.0 and up) or higher optical zoom (maybe like 3x and up)?

I am looking into a camera that is cheap...roughly $200-300 and thought maybe the Nikon coolpix 3100 (3.2 megapix, 3x opt. zoom). Anyone think this is a bad idea?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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Justin
stk18119@loki.stockton.edu

D.auratus (Costa Rican, Nicaraguan)
D.leucomelas
D.tinctorius (lorenzo, yellowback, citro, pb, oyopock,etc.)
D.azureus
D.ventrimaculatus (yellow/gold)
D.pumilio (blue jeans, solid red)
P.aurotaenia (narrow bands/green)
P.bicolor
E.tricolor (Santa Isabel)
H. leucophyllata
P. hypochondrialis azurea
P. resinifictrix
A. caladryas
etc.......

I hear that the cool pix is a nice camera. I just got a sony F717 and it is awesome, but much more exspensive. I think there are several people on here who use the cool pix though. Nice collection of frogs by the way.

TonyT

Tony,

That's a nice camera! Definately out of my range. Thanks for the comment about my collection- I'm trying to expand but feeding all of these mouths is getting crazy....I think I spend more money on their food than I do mine..lol. Especially these auratus which multiply like crazy...I started with two pairs and now I have about five with so many offspring that I stopped counting. I think this is why I can only spend such little money on this camera....ugh!

Have fun
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Justin
stk18119@loki.stockton.edu

D.auratus (Costa Rican, Nicaraguan)
D.leucomelas
D.tinctorius (lorenzo, yellowback, citro, pb, oyopock,etc.)
D.azureus
D.ventrimaculatus (yellow/gold)
D.pumilio (blue jeans, solid red)
P.aurotaenia (narrow bands/green)
P.bicolor
E.tricolor (Santa Isabel)
H. leucophyllata
P. hypochondrialis azurea
P. resinifictrix
A. caladryas
etc.......

I swear by my Nikon Coolpix 4300. It's not a fancy SLR or anything, but it gets the job done and does outstanding
close-ups (macros). Also, there quite a few add-on lenses and such for this camera. The link below will take you to my small photo gallery were some of my better pics are posted. I don't have alot of time to really try and photograph my whole collection so I pic on a few subjects here and there and the better shots go up, the rest are dumped. Best of luck in finding a camera....if close-ups are what you want, then Nikon is where it's at.

-Bill J
My Frognet Gallery

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Updated list as of: 11/7/03
2.2.3 D. azureus
1.2 D. ventrimaculatus 'yellow' (22 tads in the water)
3.3 D. tinctorius 'cobalt'
0.0.3 D. tinctorius 'patricia'
0.0.1 D. tinctorius 'giant orange'
0.0.1 D. tinctorius 'citronella'
0.0.2 D auratus 'zwartgroene(Panamanian black and green)'
0.0.5 D. auratus 'green/black'
0.0.3 D. imitator 'Alex Sens line' (very soon)
0.0.2 D. reticulatus (soon)

I would recommend getting either a Nikon coolpix 4300 or a Canon Powershot A80. I just bought the Canon, and my research showed that these two cameras were very similar. Ultimately, I was able to negotiate a lower price ($350 for the A80) on the Canon, and I liked some of the features. 3mp cameras can give good resolution, but the 4mp cameras are close enough in price that I think it warrants spending the extra dough. Another good choice is the Fuji Finepix 3800 (only 3mp, and macro is not quite as nice as the other 2).

Basically, what you are looking for is: 1) good macro capability (how close you can get to the subject and keep it in focus-Nikon and Canon seem to be the best at that price range), 2) good resolution (4mp is better than 3, etc.), and 3) ability for add-on lenses if you want really close macros. Digital zoom is really not that great. I would personally not consider that a selling point for a camera.
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Homer W. Faucett III, esq.
Purveyor of Trivialities and Fine Nonsense

Homer,

Where were you able to get this good deal on the canon? The A80 was one of my other choices, but it seemed to be out of my price range. By the way, what is the difference between digital and optical zoom? I hear digital is garbage and need not be considered.

Thanks
-----
Justin
stk18119@loki.stockton.edu

D.auratus (Costa Rican, Nicaraguan)
D.leucomelas
D.tinctorius (lorenzo, yellowback, citro, pb, oyopock,etc.)
D.azureus
D.ventrimaculatus (yellow/gold)
D.pumilio (blue jeans, solid red)
P.aurotaenia (narrow bands/green)
P.bicolor
E.tricolor (Santa Isabel)
H. leucophyllata
P. hypochondrialis azurea
P. resinifictrix
A. caladryas
etc.......

The difference is in the way the subject is zoomed in. With optical zoom, the camera is using the lenses to zomm in on the subject while digital zoom is generated by the image processor in the camera and the subject is digitally blown up...which leads to a horribly focussed and pixelated image.

-Bill J
-----

Updated list as of: 11/7/03
2.2.3 D. azureus
1.2 D. ventrimaculatus 'yellow' (22 tads in the water)
3.3 D. tinctorius 'cobalt'
0.0.3 D. tinctorius 'patricia'
0.0.1 D. tinctorius 'giant orange'
0.0.1 D. tinctorius 'citronella'
0.0.2 D auratus 'zwartgroene(Panamanian black and green)'
0.0.5 D. auratus 'green/black'
0.0.3 D. imitator 'Alex Sens line' (very soon)
0.0.2 D. reticulatus (soon)

I did a little negotiating with Best Buy. I found all the good prices on the web using search bots like pricegrabber.com, etc. (just type in "canon powershot A80 price" on Google). When I computed the ACTUAL COST (including shipping), I was able to negotiate a bit. They say they will only match prices from brick and mortar stores, but I was able to get them to come off of the retail price (who pays retail anyway?). It wasn't the lowest I could get it elsewhere, but I felt better about dealing with them and taking it home when I paid for it. Check out your best prices for both the Nikon 4300 and the Canon A80. Whichever one you can get the best deal on, go for it. They're both great.

As for digital zoom, it works by interpolating pixels and approximating what something should look like if it was blown up. That leaves a lot of room for digital "slop" which takes the clarity out of your digital image. Optical zooms use variable lenses and operate like a set of variable power binoculars would. That's the way to go. Digital zooms are a gimmick, in my opinion. I don't consider them a selling point on a camera.
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Homer W. Faucett III, esq.
Purveyor of Trivialities and Fine Nonsense

optical zoom is a true zoom action, whereas digital is really just enlarging the image by croping. This means your enlarging your pixels thus a lost in resolution. I may not have said this just right but basicly digital is just "smoke & mirrors"

I saw a comercial for a 299 dollar gateway digital camera. Heres the website.
Link

All the cameras mentioned are very nice, but I am partial to the sony cameras. I can say that I love my F707, and the lack of a moving lens makes it much easier to focus on the frogs with the lens right on the glass. I bet if you looked around you could find a used F707 or a F717 for about $300-400. I may be selling mine in the spring to get the new F828.

Another thing to note on the smaller cameras, is the lack of manual setting and manual focus which come into play a TON when taking pictures of a froge smaller than your fingernail. Some do offer stepped manual focus, but I can tell you that is a pain to use.

I can vouch for the Canons also, very nice all around. As for the megapixel all matters what you want to do. One benefit of more megapixels is being able to crop out what you want and still get a nice 8x10 print of it. With a 3 megapixel you almost need the whole picture to get a nice 8x10. Its all about what you want to do. If you want a nice small all around camera then go with a Canon, or Sony. I've heard the Nicon coolpix are nice also.

You can read a ton of info here:
www.dpreview.com

and check prices here:
www.pricegrabber.com

Here is one I took yesterday:

-----
Kyle
www.kylesphotos.com
Dart Links - still a work in progress
1.2.0 D. leucomelas
1.1.0 D. azureus
1.0.1 D. imitators

You might also try dcresource.com. That sight has tons of comparison pics between cameras, and more data than you can ever hope to use. I thought about getting a Sony as well, but I didn't find one that really fit what I was looking for at a price I wanted to pay. I also noted that the color capture on the Sony's tended to shade slightly green (at least in the price range I wanted to pay). As far as manual focus, both the Nikon 4300 and Canon A80 has it.

Kyle obviously knows his stuff on digicams. If you've never seen his website, you should check it out.
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Homer W. Faucett III, esq.
Purveyor of Trivialities and Fine Nonsense

Kyle, I agree with you on the moving lense situation. However, with my Nikon CP 4300 I remedied this by throwing on the 10 dollar step-up/down rings. I am ordering a closeup filter kit soon and hopefully I can get some shots as extremely close as yours. Do you use addon lenses to get that close or is it the sole camera lense? Impressive shots!

-Bill J
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Updated list as of: 11/7/03
2.2.3 D. azureus
1.2 D. ventrimaculatus 'yellow' (22 tads in the water)
3.3 D. tinctorius 'cobalt'
0.0.3 D. tinctorius 'patricia'
0.0.1 D. tinctorius 'giant orange'
0.0.1 D. tinctorius 'citronella'
0.0.2 D auratus 'zwartgroene(Panamanian black and green)'
0.0.5 D. auratus 'green/black'
0.0.3 D. imitator 'Alex Sens line' (very soon)
0.0.2 D. reticulatus (soon)

For that shot I used a 4 closeup filter/lens. The whole set was $55 for 3. It allows me to zoom in a little closer than normal. One thing to note is that my example would not be possible without manual apature settings. Due to the loss in depth of field. On most of mine I let it autofocus since it is trying to focus on such a small thing. I do use manual also, but on most digitals it can be hard to use since the resolution of the LCDs are not good enough.

Sonys are known for vivid colors, and that is one of the things that makes them one of the top digital camera seller. The other thing is great lenses. Sony on a lot of their cameras uses Carl Zeiss lenses, which are far above most others. In the same range. Like I said before I do like the Canons, and am thinking about going to DSLR route myself, but to be honest some of the sony features are hard to give up. I love the swivel lens, without it I would break my back taking frogs pics. Also some of the color issues in the F707 (what I have) were corrected in the F717, and then a lot of people complained. Its a matter of personal prefrence really. In the new one they are going to offer 3 color levels, so that should be cool.

On dpreview you can compare pictures side by side from each camera, and the owner of the site tries to take similar locations so you can really get a good idea how they compare.

Here is what you should be asking yourself when buying a camera since almost all of the major companies produce good cameras:
1. What features are most important to you
- size
- weight
- manual settings
- firmware updates

2. What will you be using it for:
- Frogs
- People
- more frogs
- landscapes

3. How much do you want to spend

Here are some of my picks:

High:
Canon EOS-10D
Sony F707-F717 or new F828 (should be out any day)
Canon PowerShot G5
Canon EOS-300D (cheap/intro DSLR)

Medium:
Canon A80
Sony DSC-V1 (some people love this one for a small 5megapixel)
Sony DSC-P92
Nikon Coolpix 5400

Low:
Canon PowerShot A70
Nikon Coolpix 4300
Sony DSC-P52

Well thats a rough idea, I would not go any lower than 3 megapixel, and really think about what you need and want. Canon has a whole new set of things comign this year that could change a lot of things. Also the Olympus C-750 UZ has some amazing Zoon features. Expect to spend at least $300 and there may be some good after x-mas sales also.

Hope that helps a little,
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Kyle
www.kylesphotos.com
Dart Links - still a work in progress
1.2.0 D. leucomelas
1.1.0 D. azureus
1.0.1 D. imitators