Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When you count the subcaudals do you include the tip and the TEENY TINY ones just before the tip in the count as well? I tried to count the ventrals on my over 4 foot Mex Black King (or Black Milk) but it was too difficult to do all that counting with a wiggling snake that I was trying to hold by myself.

Thanks,
MissHisssss

You include all of them on one side (as best you can). It isn't really something you are supposed to do on a live snake! You could try taking a digital pic of the underside of the tail to help you - pics don't wriggle around.

Just out of curiosity...why are you counting subcaudals? There are much easier ways to sex an adult kingsnake.
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Chris Harrison

...he was beginning to realize he was the creature of a god that appreciated the discomfort of his worshippers - W. Somerset Maugham

I'm not trying to sex a snake. I'm trying to find out what kind of snake I have. I wish I had a camera that could do the job. It sure would be easier, that's for sure. I'm still trying to find out if this is a Mexican Black King or a Black Milk that I have here. I did figure out, though, that counting the dorsals will be more helpful in identifying it than counting the ventrals and subcaudals... so I'll go that route. You have been so very kind, and helpful, answering my endless questions in all the forums I've visited. My thirst to learn can be annoying at times.

Thanks again...
MissHisssss

Use a shed skin. It doesn't wiggle.

Paul Hollander

A shed skin AND a loupe like one pictured here and a bright light make counting subcaudals a bit easier. If you have access to a microscope, all the better.

Myself, I always wonder whether or not to include in the count the tiny scales immediately caudal to the vent in boids when I’m probing them.

-Joan

I thought about the shed skin (I must've been reading ya alls mind). The next time he sheds I'll try that route. As of right now with counting everything on the wiggle and lack of knowledge as to where I should start and end the count.... I've come up with:
Ventrals for Black Milks 216-236
MBK 213-225
Mine 217 or 219

Subcaudals for Black Milks 42-63
MBK 47-56
Mine 53

Dorsals Black Milks 19
MBK 23-25
Mine 21 or 23 (21 was counted more often)

So I guess it's looking more like a King at this point. What do you all think?

MissHisssss