Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, one of my females finally had her first litter. YEAH!!! I never realized just how cute they are when they are born. She just had a small litter, I counted 9 the night they were born, could only find 7 the next morning. maybe i counted wrong.
Now I do have a problem that I need your help with. I have my rats in a group of 1.3. They are all housed in a 55 gal tank with a combination of newspaper and aspen bedding for a substrate. Well the problem is that one of my other females is adamantly stealing the new mothers babies. This other rat has never had a litter to my knowledge, but insists that she is a better mother, and will literally take the babies right off the mothers nipples and whisk them away to another corner of the tank. There have been several fights among these two rats over these babies and some of the fights have drawn serious blood. So, what I have done is to seperate the mother and her babies into another smaller tank. Is that the right solution?? How hard will it be to reintroduce her to the main tank after the babies are weaned off? Is the rat thief always going to be a problem in this manner or will she get better once she has a litter of her own??
Thanks for listening, sorry for the long post. I look forward to hearing your ideas on this.

What I do when my females are within a few days of 'popping', I move her into a different breeding rack, to be alone. I would never leave them together during or after birth, because female rats have such a strong maternal instinct, that they get jeleous of the new mother. I have never had a problem re-introducing the mother once her babies are weaned.

Thanks for the quick response, but I have a question.
I have read that the new mother rats will go into heat within 72 hours after giving birth, do you try to utilize this window, or do you normally give your breeders a break after each litter?
I had planned on just leaving the colony intact, hoping that the male would get to business quickly to keep production high for at least a little while, until i can raise more breeders, but seperating the new moms will make that a little more difficult. What about moving the male with the new mom for a few days, would that be a problem?? Thanks again for your answer, i do appreciate it!

You can seperate them or not. If you have a mom that gets in fights, then seperate her. I breed on the post partum heat in order to keep production up.

DeMak

Well I personally have 7 balls to feed on a weekly basis, so I have to produce enough rats to keep them all fed. With that said, I DO NOT utilize that 72 hours post-birth to re-impregnate the females. Females will go into heat approx. every 5 days. What I do is leave the new mommy to care for her young ALONE. When the babies are weaned, I re-introduce her into the colony. She is usually pregnant within the week. At this rate, one mother will have a litter every month almost on the nose. Another thing, if you do decide to re-breed a brand new Mom, then the breeding length of that female will be greatly diminished. For example, a Mom that has been bred immediately after giving birth, will only breed for approx. 6 months or so, but if you hold off on the breeding until the babies are weaned, they can give you up to a year of breeding. It all depends on personal opinion. Like I said, I have enough rats that I don't have to re-breed my females immediately.

I forgot, another valid point, keep in mind that giving birth is VERY taxing and stressful on the female. She can drop almost half of her weight giving birth. Which means, if you re-impregnate her immediately, the next litter may not be; as larg or as healthy. The mom has not had time to feed her first litter and pack on a little weight for the next one. This is from personal experience, it has worked for me this way. Remember, the healthier the rat, the healthier the snake. With regards to two babies being missing in the morning, one of my first mommies had 9 in her first litter, two died, and I payed such close attention that I removed them. Mommy would probably have eaten them, to avoid contamination in her litter. Remember, try not to touch live babies for 24-48 hours after birth.

Mykee,

If a rat gives birth, then nurses for 4 weeks, is bred (5 days), then gives birth 21 to 23 days later, then don't you get a litter every 2 months or so?

DeMak

DeMak, you're right, my bad. My females only feed for 3 weeks, by the fourth week, they're prego, and 22 days later, they give birth again. So every 7 weeks or so.

I've had the same problem. I haven't had to many litters, but from what i've seen when a female starts stealing babies from another mom, she is getting close to having her own litter. Every time this has been the case.

It was a good idea to move the mom, I left them and they ended up fighting and killing babies they fought so hard over them.

As for the babies that you though you counted. they may have been there. If they died from the fighting or other causes the mom would have cleaned up. I've seen it happen a few times.

If you think the babies are cute now wait two weeks. Thats when they are the most cute.

Thanks for the quick answer. If they are cuter at 2 weeks than they are now, boy am I going to be in trouble when I have to feed them off. My kids have already named the breeders, i cant wait for them to name ALL the babies...LOL!
Well I guess I had better get a couple more cages ready. The other females should be giving birth soon, one this week, and i think the other should be 2 weeks away. Thanks again for the answer, i will keep you posted on my success.
Oh yeah! follow up question.......once all of the rats have litters, is it easier to keep them together with thier pups at that point?? What i mean is, once each mother has her own litter, will the fighting over pups start to die down?? I have been reading these forums for quite a while and would love to be able to keep them together so that the females will get pregnant again quickly. Maybe I could drop the male in with the females one at a time, a couple days after birh....watcha think?
Thanks again you guys are the best!

You can try to put them back together. I've done it without major problems. The moms will fight a little, but after a while they calm down and started sharing for the most part. I would try to keep the babies near the same age though. I think that if there is to much a difference in the age of the litters you might have the older ones getting all the milk and the younger ones being left out. I don't know for sure though, havn't tried that yet.

Hello, they will still fight over the babies, ones that seem to be the problem makers I normaly get rid of some are worse then others but even the best will still do it just not as aggresivly, as far as placing the male back in with the female if they have been seperated for any amount of time I wouldnt, he'll kill the babies, the only time a male should be around babies is if they have been in he same cage since birth, even then the male will eat alot of the babies, i breed 1.2 to a cage and remove the male when they are ready to drop, I get alot higher production and less canoblism, once the litters are weened I reintroduce the male, the females fight alot less, I get longer breeding life out of them and this way the litters are born within a day or two of each other, the other thing you can try as well is place your females in a 10gal or something that size my rack units are all large cat pans, the smaller cage restricts the females and they tend not to try and steal each other babies and run with them, but lay togther side by side with the pups, Hope this help Jason
-----
Jason & Danica
Have you ever been so close to tragedy Or been close to folks who have..Have you ever felt a pain so powerful so heavy you collapse..I've never had to knock on wood but I know someone who has..Which makes me wonder if I could if I ever had to knock on wood..And I'm glad I havnt yet because I'm sure it isnt good..Thats the Impression that I get. By The Mighty Mighty Bosstones.
Classic Dums

>>... as far as placing the male back in with the female if they have been seperated for any amount of time I wouldnt, he'll kill the babies, the only time a male should be around babies is if they have been in he same cage since birth, even then the male will eat alot of the babies ...

How strange! I've been breeding rats for about three years, and I've never once seen a male eat newborns if he was present for the birthing of them. I agree, that to introduce to a cage with newborn babies that he wasn't there at the birthing of, is certain to result in their murder.

>>... i breed 1.2 to a cage ...

This works well. It depends on the size of the cage. In large cages, I usually set them up 1.4 or 1.5, but I use 1.1 and 1.2 for small cages. I like to keep pedigrees on my rats, and find that by using the small ratios, it makes it a snap to keep track of which momma a litter belongs to. If I'm just breeding for max productivity, then I go with the bigger groupings.

>>... and remove the male when they are ready to drop ...

Agreed. Not because of cannabalism, but to ensure that the momma doesn't get re-bred post-partum. I leave her with her babies for 21 days, then reintroduce her to her mate. I like to give my mommas a break, and agree that constant pregnancy will drastically shorten their breeding lives.

>>... I get alot higher production and less canoblism, once the litters are weened I reintroduce the male, the females fight alot less, I get longer breeding life out of them and this way the litters are born within a day or two of each other, the other thing you can try as well is place your females in a 10gal or something that size my rack units are all large cat pans, the smaller cage restricts the females and they tend not to try and steal each other babies and run with them, but lay togther side by side with the pups, Hope this help Jason

-----
tricia