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PHOSPHOLIPASE A - Promotes histamine production in tissue. Also probably largely responsible for the "shock factor" encountered in snakebite. (S/E: Black Mamba, Taipan, cottonmouth)

My first question is is it true that this is in black mamba venom?

So just what are the components of d. polylepis venom.

dendrotoxins and fasciculins what else?

Thanks in advance
bud

on the wall, Swiss-Prot will tell all> Tim Friede

Tim,
I know your being cryptic.
But the answer to my question is all I ask.
What are the components to the polylepis?
are they too many for you to list?
there shouldnt be that many.

here is a example
20% this 10% that bal bla bla
just a ruff outline would be good.
later
bud

CYB_DENPO (Q9MLJ6)
Cytochrome b. {GENE: MTCYB OR COB OR CYTB} - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
IVBB_DENPO (P00983)
Venom basic protease inhibitor B (Dendrotoxin B). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
IVBE_DENPO (P00984)
Venom basic protease inhibitor E (Dendrotoxin E). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
IVBI_DENPO (P00979)
Venom basic protease inhibitor I (Dendrotoxin I). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
IVBK_DENPO (P00981)
Venom basic protease inhibitor K (Dendrotoxin K). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
NXL1_DENPO (P01396)
Long neurotoxin 1 (Neurotoxin gamma) (Toxin VN1). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
NXL2_DENPO (P01397)
Long neurotoxin 2 (Neurotoxin delta) (Toxin TN2). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
NXL3_DENPO (P25667)
Long neurotoxin 3 (Toxin VN2). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
NXS1_DENPO (P01416)
Short neurotoxin 1 (Neurotoxin alpha). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
TSYL_DENPO (P25518)
Synergistic-like venom protein CM-3. - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
TXAC_DENPO (P25681)
Acetylcholinesterase toxin C. - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
TXCA_DENPO (P22947)
Calciseptine (CaS) (L-type calcium channel blocker). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
TXF2_DENPO (P01414)
Toxin FS-2 (FS2). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
TXMA_DENPO (P80494)
Muscarinic toxin alpha (MT-alpha). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
TXMB_DENPO (P80495)
Muscarinic toxin beta (MT-beta). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)
VPRA_DENPO (P25687)
Intestinal toxin 1 (MIT 1) (MIT1) (Venom protein A). - Dendroaspis polylepis polylepis (Black mamba)

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Search in TrEMBL: There are matches to 20 out of 1077967 entries
O21324
Cytochrome b (Fragment) {GENE:CYTB} - Chondrostoma polylepis [Mitochondrion]
O57624
Hypothetical protein (Fragment) - Tylochromis polylepis
O79375
Cytochrome b (Fragment) {GENE:CYTB} - Chalcides polylepis [Mitochondrion]
O99587
Cytochrome b (Fragment) {GENE:CYTB} - Chalcides polylepis [Mitochondrion]
Q36111
NADH dehydrogenase subunit 2 - Tylochromis polylepis [Mitochondrion]
Q7YHD8
Cytochrome b (Fragment) {GENE:CYTB} - Allodontichthys polylepis [Mitochondrion]
Q8M6B8
Cytochrome b (Fragment) {GENE:CYTB} - Barbus polylepis [Mitochondrion]
Q8UUW1
Oocyte maturation factor Mos (Fragment) {GENE:C-MOS} - Dendroaspis polylepis
Q8W9X8
NADH dehydrogenase subunit 2 - Dendroaspis polylepis [Mitochondrion]
Q8WA06
NADH dehydrogenase subunit 4 (Fragment) - Dendroaspis polylepis [Mitochondrion]
Q8WA31
NADH dehydrogenase subunit 1 (EC 1.6.5.3) (NADH-ubiquinone oxidoreductase chain 1) (Fragment) - Dendroaspis polylepis [Mitochondrion]
Q8WC45
Cytochrome b (Fragment) - Tylochromis polylepis [Mitochondrion]
Q8WCI4
NADH dehydrogenase subunit 2 - Tylochromis polylepis [Mitochondrion]
Q91351
Dendrotoxin K (Fragment) {GENEENDROTOXIN K, DTXK} - Dendroaspis polylepis
Q94X19
Cytochrome b {GENE:CYTB} - Tylochromis polylepis [Mitochondrion]
Q9MQD1
Cytochrome b (Fragment) {GENE:CYTB} - Hemitaurichthys polylepis (Pyramid butterflyfish) [Mitochondrion]
Q9PS74
FS2=L-type CA2 channel blocker/calciseptine homolog - Dendroaspis polylepis
Q9T5T9
Cytochrome b (Fragment) {GENE:CYTB} - Chondrostoma polylepis [Mitochondrion]
Q9T9J4
Cytochrome B {GENE:CYTB} - Tylochromis polylepis [Mitochondrion]
Q9T9K8
NADH dehydrogenase subunit 2 - Tylochromis polylepis [Mitochondrion]

Your best bet is to hit the NCBI, then order specific doc. from your library. This will explain what your looking at. Briefly, let's take the 3 neuro's> The 4 betas, BEIK(K-blockers). Short and long alphas, (NX-LS). OOps don't forget the muscarinic. Cleft, TXAC. Then throw in your Ca blockers, intestinal(MIT), cool protein enhancers(TSYL), then some genes/fragments. Just think, this is the protein going into us, for protein manufacturing. No employees needed though, couldn't afford the workmans-comp. Now back to cryptic-mode

Yes thats quite a venom.
Clear and thick very potent my favorite.
Like a fine wine.
I am amazed at the fact it makes me feel so good strong and healthy.
But the no death from the bite part is super cool and well
the final solution.
A few nay sayers come out of the wood work and spew their hate
or should I say fear of the truth.
whats worse snake juice or mammal juice?
Then they have the odasity to say "there is no science involved"
Thats funny tim how come we each have a lab stocked with equipment if you dont need science.
Its possible but a lot easyier to use science and its devices.
There are many people now doing the same things we do
and I have not had a bad report yet!
Kaluber said it worked Bill hasst is still kicking and spunky.
and many others are pushing dasiys six feet under WhY?!!!
So thats it as far as I am concerned.
later
bud

I take it you self innoculate? With Mamba venom? How interesting? Have you or do you use any venom that has some kick to it? Like Ophiophagus, Oxyuranus or Psuedonaja. The one I'd like to see done is with Echis venom, now that's impressive venom!
One more question.. I hope it doesn't sound too rude, Do you think it wise to inject a venom into your body when you don't know what components or properties are in them or what they could do to you? I would think you would want to know what the properties are before doing anything called "science"
Sorry if that sounded rude, just curious.

"The King of Not Being Bitten"

Everyone has a opinion on what is the mack daddy venom.
It does not matter which species I put up here someone will pick another and say It would be better or cooler the fact is I have tried most species so some I like some I dont.
sawscale is cool but not on my agenda due to the fact
I dont keep them and dont want to small and boring.
In my first post I was sure that a quote that pla2 was in black mamba venom was wrong.
Tim was helping we got off track.
WW was right on track.
Look at the list of proteins in the prev posts.
Thats whats in it will that help yes it does.
I know all too well what black mamba venom has in it if it
would make a difference at the time of a bite.
your question
its not safe to blindly inject venom much reasearch must be done first.
like lds ld/50s bite cases the exact composition is secondary
to bite reality.
Heck I did it successfully for years with no problems.
never knowing what exactly was in it.
bud

king cobra has no kick its weak it takes 100mg to kill.
taipan is ok but its not a super fast killer.
brown snakes have great neuro toxins but I
dont think anyone does it I would try it if it was a threat to me.
The snake I would love to try would be the tiger snake.
it has a lot of neat properties.

The black mamba is the one snake that will put you in box faster than most others they are agressive strikers
and very large close to the pan or king.
big russ anderson went down in ten minutes, less if he did not use rags tied around his arms.
so it would be to the keepers advantage to have immunities.
It would not be to your advantage to innoculate for a snake you dont work with would it?
bud

Mamba venom is nice and quick, but simple. Kings cause extroadinary heamorragic effects as well as numerous other "lethal" factors. Taipans cause one to bleed out internally plus other "lethal" factors. Browns, I have even seen absorbed through the skin and cause envenomation and bleeding out.. I respect your choice of venoms, don't get me wrong but if resistance is what you desire than even kaouthia venom would provide more of a resistance to more species of snake. Tigers would provide even more. Are mambas the only species you work with? Untreated ( antivenom or innoculation ) you would be much more likely to survive with supportive care than any of the others listed above. Death from an adult King I think would be far quicker than from an adult D. polylepis. I noticed that you describe the black mamba as far more "dangerous" than the others, there is simply nothing more dangerous to work with than an adult wild Brown or Taipan Im not Aussie either, I've worked all of the above in numerous counts for many many years. I don't do it much any more, slowed down a little over the years. I have just seen a major trend towards the Haast methods... so curiosity has kicked in.
Also, out of curiosity, how many times and by what if I may ask have you been bitten (envenomated) by? How long have you injected and what is it you are trying to prove or show, you mentioned science, are you doing soley as a protection for yourself or are you trying to gather information for another study etc. I try not to be rude so please don't take anything I say as that. I am merely killing curiosity.

well everyone has a opinion this has been discussed in detail many times and the black is the winner for quick death.
It holds the record for fastest death.
Ask WW he will tell you.
kings, monacles been there done that not too impressive at all.
They still are lethal no dought.
I am not cutting down the other snakes.
after many years your opinions change from the over rated to the real facts.
I use several species to obtain my immunities.
The facts are there the blacks venom is one of the most advanced able to drop you in minutes brown snake is also
one of the top snakes no dought.
I have had hundreds of bites mambas included many factors
have to be accounted for but I like the black.
cobras have a nasty bit of necrosis even if you have restiance.
calling black simple is not to true I would call it Clean and
efficient does its job in min not days like the bleed out types.
the guy that almost dies from a pygmy will argue the pygmy
is very lethal and will stick to his opinion.
got to go
bud

>>PHOSPHOLIPASE A - Promotes histamine production in tissue. Also probably largely responsible for the "shock factor" encountered in snakebite. (S/E: Black Mamba, Taipan, cottonmouth)

Whoever wrote this needs to do their homework a bit better. PLA2 toxins cause a number of effects, in particular presynaptic neurotoxicity and myotoxicity. I don't know whetehr they are involved in histamine release and shock at all - I certainly can't recall reading that anywhere, and suspect that different toxins are involved in those processes, but am happy to be corrected.

Mamba venoms contain very little PLA2, in fact, we seem to have been the first to demonstrate that they are there at all in our colubroid LCMS paper (see link below).

Cheers,

Wolfgang
WW publications available online

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WW Home

Wolfgang,
As I thought the statement was in error.
That was my main question.
My personal mamba bites have had no effects of that type.
have a great day
Bud

>>PHOSPHOLIPASE A - Promotes histamine production in tissue. Also probably largely responsible for the "shock factor" encountered in snakebite. (S/E: Black Mamba, Taipan, cottonmouth)

Hi Wolfgang,

I believe the thinking behind that quote dates to the 1940’s when histamine was felt to be the major mediator of shock. It was during this period that researchers were using snake venoms to study inflammatory mechanisms and their roles in producing shock. Recall that the term “shock”, in a clinical context, describes a state in which there is inadequate supply of blood / oxygen to vital organs due to a severe disturbance in blood volume, blood location, or blood pumping (or a combination of these). Blood pressure is the most easily measurable marker to determine presence or absence of shock. Anyhow, in these early investigations into inflammation / shock, certain snake venoms were shown to cause hypotension / shock in animals, and analysis of venous blood from “venom-shocked” animals consistently showed elevated histamine levels, suggesting histamine might play a role in shock, and that venoms contained histamine releasing activity. Later experiments showed certain PLA2s in certain venoms produce mast cell degranulation in a nonspecific fashion. I suspect this is why phospholipase (or perhaps even histamine) is referred to as “shock factor” in the old excerpt provided by Bud.

Budman, from where did you get that excerpt, if you don’t mind me asking?

Cheers,
WK

Hello Wk!,
The quote came from another venomous type fourm If I name it it might be bleeped but here it is. I will add a dollar sign to fool the auto bleeper.
venomous$.org ask the experts fourm.
it was some bushman poster.

Hi mate

Download the paper below, it goes into the elapid 3FTx (three-finger toxins), including the abundant ones from Dendroaspis venom. As Wolfgang mentioned below, we recently showed that PLA2 toxins are likely to be in the venom, the first time this has been reported. However, they are in much lower quantities than the 3FTx.

Cheers
B
Elapid 3FTx paper

-----
Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
Deputy Director
Australian Venom Research Unit
University of Melbourne

www.venomdoc.com

Much thanks Bryan!
you and wolfgang are the best!
later
Bud

>>Much thanks Bryan!
>> you and wolfgang are the best!
>> later
>> Bud

No worries