Two (very common)pet trade magazines have published similar articles in the past couple of years, advising pet store owners on how to deal with home-based reptile breeders.
The bottom line is this; We are one of the best resources they've got. They don't always have to buy in quantity, pay for shipping, and they often have the option to handpick the animals they want.
Both articles basically end on the same message; We are not good at handling the business end of what we do.The breeder is just so happy to get ANYTHING in compensation for his efforts, that the shop owner is in a position to offer prices that are all but insulting.
Not all pet stores will have this attitude.
I'm sure many of you have stories of good deals, bad deals etc.
Personally, I usually walk out if I feel I'm getting rooked, only to recieve a phone call a few days later from the same individual wondering if we can still work a deal.
Like many of you, I'm not in this for the money, but that doesn't mean we're not entitled to a fair price for our work.
The fact is, reptile breeders now have many avenues to generate business,so even if "Dude" at "Reptile City" won't play fair, someone else likely will.
All the best,
Perry
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Pet stores (long)
Replies (9)
I have gone away from buying snakes from pet stores for the following reasons:
1. The animals are ALWAYS healthier from a breeder.
2. You dont pay a billion dollars per animal.
3. A breeder most of the time is an honest person that will make it right if something happens to the animal at no fault of the buyer. (natural premature death) Not like a pet store that has a "All live animal sales are final!". Because they know that the animals arent that healthy to begin with, and would like to get rid of them as soon as possible.
There are a some good pet stores, but they are few and far between!!
4. The animal in question is properly ID'd and you know exactly what you are getting, and not getting ripped off by some pet store that sells an animal mislabled and priced 6 times the trade price.
Far too often I have seen pet stores that are not snake knowledgeable and dont have a clue as to what they are selling!! And then they charge an arm and a leg for the animal!!
Just an example - Last summer I went into a pet store here in town, and they had a bunch of hatchling mexican black kingsnakes. They were labled as black milks, and were $75 apiece!!! I tried to explain to the owner the difference in the milks and the kings and he was adament that these were sold to him as black milks and thats what they were!! I told him to jump on the internet and do a search for black milk hatchlings and he would see the difference!! A few days later I went back in the store and they were still labled as milks! About a month later the same store had some albino corns, and had them labled as "candy canes". I didnt even bother!! But what makes me mad, is they do this, and someone who wants to get into snakes doesnt have the knowledge to pick out the discrepancies, and buys an animal thinking it is one thing, and it turns out to be something else!!
Ok, you pulled my chain on this one and I guess I have ranted enough!! LOL You get the point.
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Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian
pet stores UHG!
I bought my first corn from a pet store. She was about 22" I think when I bought her, but in a tiny little plastic box. They tried to sell me a red-tail boa at the same time. I loved the boa, I was holding her and she was calm and I almost got her. He said she'd get maybe 6 feet max. After hearing that I really wanted her, but it didn't sound right, so I passed on her, bought the corn and went home to check out more info on RTB's. I still really wanted that boa, but couldn't believe they were so small as adults. Then I read they aren't! This but-wipe tried to sell a 100lb disabled woman and her 5 year old daughter a snake that would easily over power both of us as an adult! And actually lied to me about the size! I went back, really angry and "informed" him of his "mistake" and he went on to argue with me. Saying that RTBs really only get about 6 feet as adults. Finaly I picked up a book on RTB's that was right next to us on display and pointed out the passage in it where it said they can grown to be 8-12 feet, and even as long as 16 in some cases!
The rest of my snakes have come from SMR and KL, and if I ever do buy another one from a pet store, it most certainly won't be that one!
I didn't sell any of my babies to pet stores either, I would have if I had more than I could care for, but I wouldn't take 10$ a baby for my het-snow babies even then. Plus I really didn't like the mice they had at the one store that offered to buy them. Instead, I gave several away to people I knew could care for them, and sold a few myself...lol
I'd rather GIVE my babies away then see them mis-labeled and sold for outrageous prices, while getting pee'd on as reimbursement.
p.s. aren't black milks not all black as babies, and mexican kings are? I haven't seen many of either as hatchlings, but I know as adults mexican black kings are BLACK, because they are the next snake I plan on adding to my little herpetorium here
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Dianne
AKA IcedGoddess
0.1 Snow (Ruby)
1.0 Anery A (Breaden)
0.0.4 Normal het-snow (no names yet)
1.1 Bloodred (Vlad the Impailer and Natasha)
0.1 Anery Stripe (Morticia)
1.0 Candy Cane (Kane)
0.1 Amel (Christine)
1.3 Cats (Alexys{f}, Mikki{f}, Timothy{m}, Seven{f})
0.1 Child
IcedGoddess Creations
Castle Serpents
and the mexican black kings are black as hatchlings. Go figure huh.
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Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian
SOME rtb's do only get 5-6 feet as an adult. But I seriously doubt THOSE were that kind. He might not have been lying, he might have actually believed what he was saying. Who knows. Good thing you looked them up.
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Peter: It's OK, I'll handle it. I read a book about something like this.
Brian: Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't NOTHING?
Yeah, some snakes have a very large variable growth range.
I know of someone with a ball python who's almost 6 feet long at 70 1/2". Not the average ball python. But nonetheless, a ball. She's a monster, lol.
My first redtail boa was purchased in a pet store 12 years ago and is 7 feet long. Of the 5 adults I have, none are over 7' long currently though I have 2 three-four year old females that I expect to reach 8' before it's all over and done with. Most, though not all, redtail boas in pet stores are Bci (Boa constrictor imperator) and tend to stay in the 6'-7' range but females can reach 8'-9' pretty easily. It's atypical of Bci to get much over 8'-9' but that's not to say it's unheard of...I know of one heavily fed female that was in the 10'-11' range...an exception to the rule but still a possibility. The 'true' redtail boas (Boa constrictor constrictor) are rarely seen in pet stores and they regularly reach lengths in excess of 9' according to those folks I've known or talked to who actually own Bcc. Just a bit of trivia for you. 
At any rate, I'll second that it's a good thing you looked them up. While I have no trouble handling any of my guys alone, that doesn't mean that others wouldn't have issues with handling a 7' or more boa. Kudos to you for checking out the information before the purchase.
Raven
thanks, Since I went through that with that shop owner, I have heard that some are smaller. But I'm barely 100lbs and my arm strength is pretty whimpy So I'm glad I chose to stick with the smaller, lighter, corns. But who knows, maybe my knight in shining armour will show up someday and he can get me an RTB and be the one who does most of the handling They sure are pretty snakes!
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Dianne
AKA IcedGoddess
0.1 Snow (Ruby)
1.0 Anery A (Breaden)
0.0.4 Normal het-snow (no names yet)
1.1 Bloodred (Vlad the Impailer and Natasha)
0.1 Anery Stripe (Morticia)
1.0 Candy Cane (Kane)
0.1 Amel (Christine)
1.3 Cats (Alexys{f}, Mikki{f}, Timothy{m}, Seven{f})
0.1 Child
IcedGoddess Creations
Castle Serpents
They are great snakes...but I'm pretty biased towards them! lol The pet store employees are often a problem - unfortunately I don't think the one you encountered was all that unusual. There are tons of stories I've heard about pet stores selling people boas or Burmese pythons with the impression that they'll only grow 'to fit a cage', or 'as much as you feed it', or a flat out lie in regards to adult size. Hmmm, I'd better not get started on that rant! lol
On a side note, I always find it kind of funny that when someone says 'boa' and RTB's are the first thing people mentally picture. There are really quite a few different types out there, many of them considerably smaller than their better known family members. I personally have 4 different types of boas - Bci (8 total), Colombian rainbow (just one), Dumerils (a pair) and Solomon Island ground boas (a trio). The Dumerils and Bci are basically the same adult size, but the rainbow is only about 5 feet in length and only slightly thicker than my male corn, and the Solomon Island ground boas are pretty small (2'-3' tops for adult males, 4'-5' tops for adult females - none of mine are adults yet though). That doesn't even begin to count my pythons or corns though (25 snakes total). As the saying goes, they're like potato chips, you can't have just one.
What magazines were these comments in? I ask because I'd really like to drop a letter to the editor of them. I've only produced one litter of boas myself so far (in 2000, but I'm hoping for 2 litters this coming spring 2004) and sold them to a local pet store I was familiar with for wholesale costs (to be expected when dealing with a retail store). I got what I felt was a fair price for the animals I sold (roughly $20 less than I see boas sold for here at shows). Even so, I had called several other area stores looking for buyers. Because it was 'baby boa season' many of them already had their limit of animals and I only ran into one store that wanted to purchase them for a store credit of far less per animal than I was interested in selling them, plus I don't do store credit.
I don't breed my animals for profit but do expect to receive a fair price for them when I breed them. I will grant that I know people who breed their pets and then HAVE to get rid of them to whoever they can because they aren't set up to care for the offspring (not a good position to put yourself in IMO). I think they are the exception to the rule rather than the rule itself. I started doing my first local reptile shows here in VA last year. My best friend had a litter of boas I helped her to sell and we did well. It's a route I'd recommend to any small-time breeder if you have a fairly small local show...not to mention it's just plain fun.
