Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can anyone sugest anything I might be able to do for my 4 year old White's Green Tree Frog Female.

She appears to be holding fluid and has been swelling progressively for the past week - Tonight I'm going to attempt to drain some of the fluid in an effort to relieve the pressure - but must seek a permanent solution.

I'd hate anything to happen to Tori as she is the matriach of my clutch of 7 frogs. She is bearing eggs at the mo but so is the other Female (Edith) and she is not ballooning up.

All the frogs live in a 165 USG tank which is mostly planted land areas with 20 litres of recirculated filtered heated water in a lagoon like setup - which has not changed - also the other frogs are fine - I've directly observed her eating - skinsheding and defacating in the recent days but have not observed any urination - anybody got anyyy ideas

Also - all the vets I call only talk of Euthenasia - at the moment except for the size Tori seems undisturbed - moving about (allbeit slowly) and eating as normal - also her colour is normal - tank temp at the mo varies from 25C at night up to sometimes 35C in the day (it's summer here in Australia) - the water is also heated to a min of 25C.

Any ideas will be very much aprieciated - DESPIRATE

Do NOT try to drain fluid off of your frog. Not only is it dangerous, but you will probably stress the frog beyond recovery. I've got to check around first before I advise you, but in the meantime I wanted to tell you not to attempt draining fluid from her. Maybe someone else will pipe in before I get back, but for the frogs sake just move it to another container with a moist plain toweled bottom and provide fresh declorinated water constantly. I had a Whites do the same thing once, and providing the fresh water every hour or so did help the swelling a bit. Unfortunatly in my case the frog was a rescue with renal failure and there was no saving it.
Now you say the water is filtered, but how often to you change it partially or totally?
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*~~Whitney~~*

There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.

Thank you sooo much for your promp reply - You were absolutely right in sugesting I don't lance it - I gotta admit I did try - set her up inb my little operating container - gave her some food as a distraction and commenced trying to stick her with my seringe - I just could not do it though as she was flinching at the first touch of the needle and I was odviously stressing her. So I used the oportunity to simply observe her more closely - gave her some food and let her back into her home.

Since I posted this I have recieved an Email from the Frog expert at our local university (Micheal Tyler)

This is what he said "
It sounds as if Tori has a condition called subcutaneous lymphoedema, usually caused by the failure of the lymph hearts to deal with incoming fluid. This can be resolved by giving the frog a dip 2 or 3 times a day in a saline solution, ideally 7 gram salt in 1 Litre of water.

There are some rarer conditions due to calcium loss and kidney failure. Tapping off the fluid with a needle and syringe is not an option because the fluid is in about 30 separate compartments.

I do not know of any vet in South Australia who knows much about frog diseases! Whenever a vet is faced with a sick frog, I tend to receive a call asking me for help and advice!

I hope that the dips assist your poor frog.

Regards
Michael "

In answer to the rest of your post - the water is reverse osmosis filtered and allowed to stand for a few days and the entire 20 liters ( 5 USG) is changed every six months - during which time it is recirculated and carbon filtered (the fiter medium cleaned every week or so) - this has been the way since setting up the system 3 years ago and Is what I use for all my elclosures - also the other frogs which share this enclosure (160 USG size) are all fine.

The temps are computer controlled at min 23C and max 37C with both indirect air and water heating (73F - 98F)

Thank you again for taknig the time to post - I'm gonna be try the salt baths immediately - I'll keep the post up to date with her progress

Make sure you dont use Iodized salt. I would use aquarium salt.
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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

Yes I wondered about using Iodised Salt so I errd on the side of caution and went and got some aquarium salt.

Tori is enjoying her periodic baths (I give her a massage at the same time) and then I weigh her to keep track of any progress.

She's currently at 185 grams (6.5Oz) when before the illness (6 months ago last weight) she weighed in at 80 Grams (2.8 Oz)

I took a picture but don't know how to attach it

Also what do the numbers you have included in your post mean ? The ones next to the frog propernames I've often seen them here and wondered what they mean.

Male.female.unsexed

so 1.1.0 is one male and one female and no unsexed
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0.0.5 Blue Dendrobates Auratus
3.2.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2.2.0 Asian Floating Frogs (Occidozyga Lima)
1.1.0 White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)

Thank you for that - I was postulating x y z with x Males y Females and z babys..

In other news Tori is still expanding (@190 Grams) but appears comfortable and has eaten twice in the last 2 days - so if she didn't look like a beach ball I would think nothing was wrong.

I'm going to continue my saline baths and keep all my free apendages crossed.

Who can help me with posting picture instructions ?

4 2 1 (litoria Caerulea)
2 0 0 (litoria Aurea)
2 2 5 (Limnodynastes Tasmaniensis)
2 2 0 (Limnodynastes Fletcher)
2 ? ? (Limnodynastes Interioris) (not enclosed)
1 1 0 (Homosapien caucasious)

Post them in the Kingsnake picture gallery. Click on Photo Gallery at the top of the page, sign up, and upload your pictures. Then you can link to them from the bottom w/o HTML, like I'll put up a pic of my blue phase Whites, just from selecting it from the menu below. To link from it to another site or forum you will need HTML, but sign up for the gallery first.

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*~~Whitney~~*

There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.

Thank you fot that I've got 2 pix up now and will add to them soon.

In other news It looks like Tori's on the mend - after peeking at a massive 192.9 Grams (6.8 Oz) she has shown a decrease in the past 2 wieghings - after her lst 2 baths she was 191.8 and then 190.5 - so I think we've got it.

The saline baths appear to be working - of course we have to hope that whatever ailments are to blame that her immune system has had time to deal with them.

Anyway - I feel reasonably confidant - Thank you to all who posted (including cheshireycat who answered my first despirate post ) or to those who helped with good vibes on the either. Which ever It looks like Tori's gonna pull through.

Ive posted a pix of her at 185Grams at the begining of her treatment (sorry for the quality - but it was an old camcorder out of my junkroom (the only nonfilm camera I could get fast)

Thanks again from all of us.